North East Buses

(08 Aug 2021, 2:48 pm)mb134 wrote [ -> ]Did you decide against reading the post 3 above yours?

I know it's only temporary but will still have an impact no doubt.

(08 Aug 2021, 2:49 pm)L469 YVK wrote [ -> ]I know it's only temporary but will still have an impact no doubt.

The industry ' as we know it' will be wholly different in 12-24 months time. Competition will be slim to none, as local authorities will have a much more significant input in what commercial businesses can do. Think of it as franchising, but more subtle, given operators will all still be jumping through hoops for funding for a few years yet - that will require local authority agreement to obtain. We all know how poor authorities are at network planning, but they will have a bigger say than ever.

The Coast Road and its over subscription of services will absolutely be rationalised in the NBS. Infact, the NBS actually makes very specific reference to these instances where resources could and should be used elsewhere for greater good, whilst maintaining a high frequency still. I dont think Arriva, nor GNE are looking at the Coast Road in the same way any more. There is literally nothing making money at the moment.

Arriva Service 35A Newbiggin to Morpeth from 29th August

(11 Aug 2021, 10:05 am)Train8261 wrote [ -> ]Arriva Service 35A Newbiggin to Morpeth from 29th August

35 / 35A - Both hourly, slightly different routes to get the PVR down to 3 as mentioned.
43 - Every 15 Minutes
55 - Every 20 Minutes
306 - Every 15 Minutes
308 - Every 15 Minutes
X21 - Every 20 Minutes
X22 - Every 20 Minutes

No changes to the X10, X11, X30 and 46 though.

They're all happening on the same date.

Yep, so with the 35/35A:

The 35 runs direct from North Seaton to Woodhorn, before starting the return trip to Morpeth and will drop off and pick up through Newbiggin. 

The 35A does the opposite, running as normal from North Seaton to Woodhorn but running direct on the trip to Morpeth from Woodhorn.

As Storx has said above it cuts the PVR to 3.

(11 Aug 2021, 10:20 am)mb134 wrote [ -> ]Yep, so with the 35/35A:

The 35 runs direct from North Seaton to Woodhorn, before starting the return trip to Morpeth and will drop off and pick up through Newbiggin. 

The 35A does the opposite, running as normal from North Seaton to Woodhorn but running direct on the trip to Morpeth from Woodhorn.

As Storx has said above it cuts the PVR to 3.

It's not a bad move in fairness to them and doesn't change much. The timetable is a right mess though as someone who can read timetables it's a bit erm confusing. All the buses going via Sandy Bay in the morning towards Ashington and same at evening peak in the opposite direction. The 35 going the Woodhorn route during the day but then suddenly changes to going via Sandy Bay in the evening rush hour with no realistic way of actually telling it does with one random bus leaving Morpeth at 08:34 doing so aswell.

(11 Aug 2021, 10:43 am)Storx wrote [ -> ]It's not a bad move in fairness to them and doesn't change much. The timetable is a right mess though as someone who can read timetables it's a bit erm confusing. All the buses going via Sandy Bay in the morning towards Ashington and same at evening peak in the opposite direction. The 35 going the Woodhorn route during the day but then suddenly changes to going via Sandy Bay in the evening rush hour with no realistic way of actually telling it does with one random bus leaving Morpeth at 08:34 doing so aswell.

Aye, hopefully the app (I know, reaching here) makes it a bit more straightforward for folk. 

Edit: I think the 0834 you mention will run dead to the depot, so won't be picking anyone up and as such will only need to drop off passengers, same with the evening trips. It looks like there will still be one peak board too, whatever works that 0834 and the 1651/1714 evening trips.

Having looked at the X21/22 times in the morning peak to Newcastle compared to the 'old' (when it was last every 20 mins) timetables, here's the differences:

New times: X21 - 0536 (from Ash), 0546, 0610, 0635, 0700, 0715, 0740, 0810, 0830, 0850, 0915 (then every 20 mins)
X22 - 0507, 0554, 0624, 0649, 0714, 0734, 0759, 0824, 0849 (then every 20 mins)

Old times: X21 - 0546 (from Ash), 0601, 0621, 0641, 0701, 0721, 0741, 0806, 0831, 0856, 0916 (then every 20).
X22 - 0516, 0605, 0635, 0655, 0715, 0735, 0755, 0820, 0850 (then every 20 mins)

So same number of journeys, but the first few of the day are quite a bit earlier. First full X21 is a full 15 minutes earlier from Newbiggin and is accommodated by the 0601/21/41 moving to an 0610 and 0635. First 3 X22s are 10 minutes earlier.


In terms of the 35 towards Morpeth in the morning peak, again compared to the last time it was every 20 mins:

New timetables: 0522 (from Ash), 0601 (from Moor Est), 0622, 0652, 0722, 0737, 0752, 0827, 0854 (35A from Spital), 0924, 0959 (35A from Spital)

Old timetables: 0522 (from Ash), 0601 (from Moor Est), 0627, 0647, 0707, 0727, 0747, 0807, 0832, 0857, 0917, 0937, 0957

(11 Aug 2021, 10:56 am)mb134 wrote [ -> ]Aye, hopefully the app (I know, reaching here) makes it a bit more straightforward for folk. 

Edit: I think the 0834 you mention will run dead to the depot, so won't be picking anyone up and as such will only need to drop off passengers, same with the evening trips. It looks like there will still be one peak board too, whatever works that 0834 and the 1651/1714 evening trips.

Having looked at the X21/22 times in the morning peak to Newcastle compared to the 'old' (when it was last every 20 mins) timetables, here's the differences:

New times: X21 - 0536 (from Ash), 0546, 0610, 0635, 0700, 0715, 0740, 0810, 0830, 0850, 0915 (then every 20 mins)
X22 - 0507, 0554, 0624, 0649, 0714, 0734, 0759, 0824, 0849 (then every 20 mins)

Old times: X21 - 0546 (from Ash), 0601, 0621, 0641, 0701, 0721, 0741, 0806, 0831, 0856, 0916 (then every 20).
X22 - 0516, 0605, 0635, 0655, 0715, 0735, 0755, 0820, 0850 (then every 20 mins)

So same number of journeys, but the first few of the day are quite a bit earlier. First full X21 is a full 15 minutes earlier from Newbiggin and is accommodated by the 0601/21/41 moving to an 0610 and 0635. First 3 X22s are 10 minutes earlier.


In terms of the 35 towards Morpeth in the morning peak, again compared to the last time it was every 20 mins:

New timetables: 0522 (from Ash), 0601 (from Moor Est), 0622, 0652, 0722, 0737, 0752, 0827, 0854 (35A from Spital), 0924, 0959 (35A from Spital)

Old timetables: 0522 (from Ash), 0601 (from Moor Est), 0627, 0647, 0707, 0727, 0747, 0807, 0832, 0857, 0917, 0937, 0957

Fair play for them trying the earlier services to give credit to them and seems there's been some thought into it. Guessing the 7am'ish runs are the busiest since they're all bunched up together must be every 8 min'ish roughly from Ashington I guess.

Similar with the changes with the 35, wonder if we might see more of it going foreward in having more runs in the mornings at the peaks and then going less frequent off peak which certainly makes sense from a cost point of view really rather than having a flat out service all day but buses carting fresh air between 10am - 4pm. I'm sure there's plenty other routes which similar could be done if they wanted, 43 and 46 in particular, maybe 55 aswell.

Got to give credit to whoever is doing the timetables lately there's been a bit of thought in them, which is unlike Arriva who especially around 2010 made some rather questionable decisions.

(11 Aug 2021, 10:56 am)mb134 wrote [ -> ]Edit: I think the 0834 you mention will run dead to the depot, so won't be picking anyone up and as such will only need to drop off passengers, same with the evening trips. It looks like there will still be one peak board too, whatever works that 0834 and the 1651/1714 evening trips.

It looks like (may be wrong) that the bus that runs these extra 35s drops into the X21 in the morning at Seacrest Road and runs off an X22 in Ashington Bus Station on an afternoon?

(12 Aug 2021, 5:17 pm)RobinHood wrote [ -> ]It looks like (may be wrong) that the bus that runs these extra 35s drops into the X21 in the morning at Seacrest Road and runs off an X22 in Ashington Bus Station on an afternoon?

I'd be inclined to agree, especially since the 0647 X20 doesn't seem to be coming back - this used to then run dead to Newbiggin to do the 0831 X21 to Newcastle. 

Looking at the timetable: (https://api.arrivabus.co.uk/routes/servi...g-2021.pdf) 

There are 7 buses arriving in Newcastle before 8am, with only 6 departures (incl. the 0800). Assuming the 0753 arrival goes onto the 0800, and the 0808 goes onto the 0815 (with the subsequent ones then slowly falling into place), and that the 0738 arrival goes onto the 0745, it leaves both the 0713 and 0723 arrival to shift onto the 0725 departure. I'd be inclined to suggest one of these runs back dead to Ashington, likely to do the 0830 X21 which I can't see anything else running onto. The X30/scholars will likely run onto 0909 X22 as per before, which does leave that 35 to run onto the 0915 X21. 

If you're correct, the board would be something like:

0737 35 to Morpeth
0834 35 to Newbiggin
0915 X21 to Newcastle
1045 X22 to Ashington
1149 X22 to Newcastle
1255 X21 to Newbiggin
1415 X21 to Newcastle
1550 X22 to Ashington
1651 35 to Morpeth
1714 35 to Newbiggin

I imagine the earlier journeys are likely to get buses back to the northern end of the route in time to do the next trip, which wouldn't have been possible beforehand without an additional vehicle.

Had a look on bustimes. 308 is going back to 15 minute frequency Mon-Fri but will remain every 20 minutes on Saturdays.

Evening frequency still every 60 minutes.

On a side note, don't know if it's the £1 fare or the timings but the 20:20 309 ex Newcastle seemed to pick up more passengers than the 20:12 308 ex Newcastle (which was also running 4 mins late).

(13 Aug 2021, 10:13 pm)L469 YVK wrote [ -> ]Had a look on bustimes. 308 is going back to 15 minute frequency Mon-Fri but will remain every 20 minutes on Saturdays.

Evening frequency still every 60 minutes.

On a side note, don't know if it's the £1 fare or the timings but the 20:20 309 ex Newcastle seemed to pick up more passengers than the 20:12 308 ex Newcastle (which was also running 4 mins late).

Arriva will adjust their fares to match imo.

(14 Aug 2021, 12:28 pm)Driver9*** wrote [ -> ]Arriva will adjust their fares to match imo.

IMO, Arriva would be better dropping the 306 & 308 to a 20 minute service each and axing the Tynemouth to W.Bay section of 306 as well as Battle Hill Drive (both running past Holy Cross).

Then 'if' there's significant demand for the 308 between Blyth & Billy Mill for journeys towards Newcastle that a 20 minute frequency isn't sufficient, introduce a parallel X38 calling at all stops between Blyth & Billy Mill then only Norham Road and perhaps Willington Square then Newcastle City Centre.

(14 Aug 2021, 12:28 pm)Driver9*** wrote [ -> ]Arriva will adjust their fares to match imo.

Had a look. Arriva are doing £1 evening fares but doesn't appear to be in the North East unless I'm mistaken.

https://www.arrivabus.co.uk/floating-pag...le-tickets

(15 Aug 2021, 1:44 pm)L469 YVK wrote [ -> ]Had a look. Arriva are doing £1 evening fares but doesn't appear to be in the North East unless I'm mistaken.

https://www.arrivabus.co.uk/floating-pag...le-tickets

Arriva do them in Darlington and Stockton and have done since 2017, so it isn't really a new thing.

Arriva have some odd things on bus times (might be a problem on there end)

But if you go to the withdrawal section. There's some services up for withdrawn on the 26th

https://bustimes.org/licences/PB0002032

(16 Aug 2021, 9:17 am)Train8261 wrote [ -> ]Arriva have some odd things on bus times (might be a problem on there end)

But if you go to the withdrawal section. There's some services up for withdrawn on the 26th

https://bustimes.org/licences/PB0002032

Just had a look through, the X85, X6 (not X9) and X16 are permantely withdrawn. The X16 (Kirkhall bit) is being merged into the 2 as one bus route straight through.

The X21/X22, 51/51A, 306/308 registrations are all being merged together respectively (it's what the merging with 150 etc is about).

Rest is timetable changes and routes staying the same (nothing might actually happen to some of them though since they've got end dates of the 01/10/2021 for all the COVID timetables so they need refreshed).

What's the one about the 51A in the Withdrawal section as it says this on details

Cancelled and merged into 458

(16 Aug 2021, 10:29 am)Train8261 wrote [ -> ]What's the one about the 51A in the Withdrawal section as it says this on details

Cancelled and merged into 458

It's just merging the registration with the 51. The 458 is the registration code for the 51. Must admit I was a bit stumped at first haha.

159 is the X21, 450 is the 308 which are the other 2 (X22 / 306)

Ah I understand

When will arriva bother to update the passengers or even (shock horror) engage with passengers and consult them about withdrawing these services, disgraceful from arriva's behalf once again.

(16 Aug 2021, 11:53 am)GNE6312 wrote [ -> ]When will arriva bother to update the passengers or even (shock horror) engage with passengers and consult them about withdrawing these services, disgraceful from arriva's behalf once again.

Given the changes aren't until the end of September and have likely just been registered, you can probably calm down. The only actual withdrawals are the X6, X16, and X85 - none of those withdrawals cut anyone off, and haven't operated for a quite significant period of time anyway.

(16 Aug 2021, 12:05 pm)mb134 wrote [ -> ]Given the changes aren't until the end of September and have likely just been registered, you can probably calm down. The only actual withdrawals are the X6, X16, and X85 - none of those withdrawals cut anyone off, and haven't operated for a quite significant period of time anyway.

So what about the other withdrawals registered

(16 Aug 2021, 12:30 pm)GNE6312 wrote [ -> ]So what about the other withdrawals registered

And what would they be?

Someone hasn't read the thread

Arriva has confirmed the details of the August changes 

From Sunday 29 August, we’re making some changes to services in the South East Northumberland and Tyne & Wear areas. 

Service 35/35A Woodhorn to Morpeth
Monday to Saturday daytime journeys will change to operate to a revised route arrangement around Newbiggin and Woodhorn, as a result of changes to the timetable.
This new arrangement will see buses operate to a one-way loop of Newbiggin and Woodhorn, via Seacrest Road.
Service 35 will operate this loop in a clockwise direction (essentially running direct from North Seaton Roundabout to Woodhorn, then via normal route back towards Ashington/Morpeth), with a NEW Service 35A introduced, which will operate journeys anti-clockwise (as normal between Newbiggin and Woodhorn, but returning via the A189 to North Seaton Roundabout, then back to Ashington/Morpeth).
The frequency of service from Newbiggin and Woodhorn will continue to be twice per hour, however due to the revised route, these times may be slightly different to normal. This does also mean that Service 35A intending passengers do need to board the bus on the opposite side of the road to normal, when travelling towards Ashington/Morpeth.
When alighting, passengers can travel around the loop in either direction to reach their terminus.
Evening and Sunday buses will continue to run as present, terminating at Seacrest Road via Sandy Bay in both directions.
Service 43 – Newcastle to Cramlington and Morpeth
Service will be reinstated to operate up to every 15 minutes during Monday to Friday daytimes between Newcastle and Cramlington with journeys continuing to Morpeth hourly. There is no change to evening or Sunday timetables. 
Service 44 – Newcastle to Dinnington
There will be minor timetable changes to this service during Monday to Friday daytimes.
Service 45 – Newcastle to Dinnington
There will be minor timetable changes to this service during Monday to Friday daytimes.
Service 55 – Newcastle to Forest Hall
Service will be improved to operate up to every 20 minutes during Monday to Saturday daytimes. There is no change to evening or Sunday timetables.
306 / 308 – Newcastle to Whitley Bay and Blyth
These services will reinstated to operate every 15 minutes on each route during Monday to Friday daytimes and every 20 minutes on each route on Saturday daytimes – giving a bus along the Coast Road every 7/8 minutes Mon to Fri daytimes and every 10 minutes Saturday daytimes. There is no change to evening or Sunday timetables.
Services X21/X22 Newcastle to Ashington and Newbiggin
These services will be reinstated to operate every 20 minutes on each route (or every 10 minutes on common sections of route) during Monday to Friday daytimes. Saturday journeys will continue to run every 30 minutes (or every 15 minutes along common sections of the route).
Service X30 – Newcastle to Blyth and Bebside (from Tuesday 31 August)
The following journeys will be reinstated;

• 0708 Bebside to Newcastle
  
• 1733 Newcastle to Bebside
  

They've also issued a separate article detailing the X21/22 changes in greater detail

Service X21 Newbiggin – Ashington – Bedlington - Newcastle:

• 0546 from Ashington, will now depart at 0536 and operate 10min earlier throughout to Newcastle, arriving at 0630
  
• A new 0545 journey from Newbiggin, arriving into Newcastle at 0713
  
• 0611 from Newbiggin, will depart at 0610 operating 1min earlier through to Bedlington Red Lion and will arrive into Newcastle at 0738, rather than 0733.
  
• 0636 from Newbiggin, will depart at 0635 operating 1min earlier through to Bedlington Red Lion and will arrive into Newcastle at 0808 as currently.
  
• 0701 from Newbiggin, will depart at 0700 operating 1min earlier through to Bedlington Red Lion and will arrive into Newcastle at 0833 as currently.
  

 
Service X22 Ashington – Guide Post – Bedlington - Newcastle:

• 0516 from Ashington, will now depart at 0507 and operate up to 10min earlier throughout to Newcastle arriving at 0600.
  
• A new 0554 from Newbiggin Ashington arriving into Newcastle at 0653
  
• 0615 from Ashington revised to depart at 0624 and arrive into Newcastle 10min later 0723, rather than 0713
  
• 0650 from Ashington, will operate 1min earlier between Ashington and Stakeford, arriving into Newcastle at 0753 as currently.
  
• 0715 from Ashington, will operate 1min earlier between Ashington and Stakeford, arriving into Newcastle at 0823 as currently.
  

Glad to see the 306 return to every 15 minute

(21 Aug 2021, 10:15 pm)peter wrote [ -> ]Arriva has confirmed the details of the August changes

They've also issued a separate article detailing the X21/22 changes in greater detail

I find it interesting that they note the X21/22 Saturday and Sunday timetables will remain as they are at present due to driver availability. The Sunday timetable is the same as it always has been, so to mention that raises the possibility that they've investigated increasing it? 

Otherwise the changes look positive, particularly the earlier journeys which should be more attractive to folk needing to be places earlier.

(22 Aug 2021, 12:59 am)mb134 wrote [ -> ]I find it interesting that they note the X21/22 Saturday and Sunday timetables will remain as they are at present due to driver availability. The Sunday timetable is the same as it always has been, so to mention that raises the possibility that they've investigated increasing it? 

Otherwise the changes look positive, particularly the earlier journeys which should be more attractive to folk needing to be places earlier.

If they were to increase the Sunday X21/X22 without other service changes (i.e a Sunday X20 Ash-Ncl only), could they do it every 30 mins for both routes or perhaps have 'shorts' between Bedlington and Newcastle to provide a 20 minute frequency between those points?

Vosa have loads of changes on for the 26th September.

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Variation ARRIVA NORTHUMBRIA LTD X7 (X7) Blyth Newcastle

PB0002032/252
Variation ARRIVA NORTHUMBRIA LTD X8 (X8) Blyth Newcastle

PB0002032/485
Variation ARRIVA NORTHUMBRIA LTD 2X15 (X15) Alnwick Morpeth

PB0002032/499
Variation ARRIVA NORTHUMBRIA LTD 2X18 (X18) Alnwick Morpeth

PB0002032/500
Variation ARRIVA NORTHUMBRIA LTD 3X18 (X18) Seahouses Alnwick

PB0002032/523
Variation ARRIVA NORTHUMBRIA LTD 4X18 (X18) Berwick-upon-Tweed Seahouses

PB0002032/309
Variation ARRIVA NORTHUMBRIA LTD 1X20 (X20) Newcastle Ashington

PB0002032/467
Variation ARRIVA NORTHUMBRIA LTD X30 (X30) Newcastle Blyth Bebside

PB0002032/152
Variation ARRIVA NORTHUMBRIA LTD 46 (46) Newcastle Great Park

PB0002032/342
Variation ARRIVA NORTHUMBRIA LTD 43 (43) Newcastle Morpeth

PB0002032/153
Variation ARRIVA NORTHUMBRIA LTD 55 (55) Newcastle Forest Hall

PB0002032/437
Variation ARRIVA NORTHUMBRIA LTD 58 (58) East Hartford Hartley Square

PB0002032/266
Variation ARRIVA NORTHUMBRIA LTD 57 (57, 57A) Ashington North Shields

PB0002032/322
Variation ARRIVA NORTHUMBRIA LTD 555 (555) Four Lane Ends Quorum Park

PB0002032/61
Variation ARRIVA NORTHUMBRIA LTD 1685 (685) Newcastle Hexham

PB0002032/533
Variation ARRIVA NORTHUMBRIA LTD 3685 (685) Brampton Carlisle

PB0002032/545
Variation ARRIVA NORTHUMBRIA LTD 695 (695) Killingworth North Gosforth Academy

PB0002032/396
Variation ARRIVA NORTHUMBRIA LTD 1X14 (X14) Newcastle Morpeth

PB0002032/497
Variation ARRIVA NORTHUMBRIA LTD 1X15 (X15) Morpeth Newcastle

PB0002032/496
Variation ARRIVA NORTHUMBRIA LTD 3X15 (X15) Berwick-upon-Tweed Alnwick

PB0002032/424
Variation ARRIVA NORTHUMBRIA LTD 2X20 (X20) Ashington Alnwick

------------

PB0002032/338
Cancellation ARRIVA NORTHUMBRIA LTD X6 (X6) Newcastle Cobalt Business Park

PB0002032/510
Cancellation ARRIVA NORTHUMBRIA LTD X16 (X16) Morpeth Morpeth Kirkhill

PB0002032/164
Cancellation ARRIVA NORTHUMBRIA LTD X85 (X85) Newcastle Hexham

PB0002032/557
Cancellation ARRIVA NORTHUMBRIA LTD 51A (51A) Newcastle Holystone Park

PB0002032/452
Cancellation ARRIVA NORTHUMBRIA LTD 306 (306) Newcastle Whitley Bay

PB0002032/194
Cancellation ARRIVA NORTHUMBRIA LTD X22 (X22) Newcastle Ashington

PB0002717/353
Cancellation ARRIVA DURHAM COUNTY LTD 3 (3) Redcar Lingdale


---------------------


Spotted this for the 28/29 Augth 2021


PB0002717/549
New ARRIVA DURHAM COUNTY LTD Shuttle (Staff, Airport, Town Centre) Darlington Centre/Airport Darlington Arena