North East Buses

Well the first Sunday 58 went well. [attachment=10277]

Good to see the X7/X8/X9 'reliability improvements' have gone well on their first day. The 17:10 X7 was (technically is) only 37 minutes late, not too bad...

Is there anybody else having problems with the Arriva website in the timetables section, seems an error keeps coming up when I try and view the new x22 Peterlee timetable, all the other timetables comes up for Peterlee area except the x22, tried different mobiles and laptop but just error code, wouldn’t mind but this is the timetable I need to download in a couple of days


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(31 Oct 2022, 8:29 pm)cbma06 wrote [ -> ]Is there anybody else having problems with the Arriva website in the timetables section, seems an error keeps coming up when I try and view the new x22 Peterlee timetable, all the other timetables comes up for Peterlee area except the x22, tried different mobiles and laptop but just error code, wouldn’t mind but this is the timetable I need to download in a couple of days


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I've got the same issue with the X22 timetable.

There's an out of date PDF timetable on Connect Tees Valley's website for the X22, just cross referenced that PDF with the new times and the only difference is the timings have been slightly altered between Acre Rigg Schools and Wingate (as noted on Arriva's website), all the departure times are unchanged.

Whilst on the subject of the X21/X22, Darlington depot is operating the evening tendered journeys using the E200MMCs.

Well in Hartlepool people don’t have a clue as had to tell a few people at the Asda stop to cross over get the 23 24 from the Museum. With how slow Hartlepool borough council / connect Tees Vally can be at times they might just have the Timetable there by new year.

(31 Oct 2022, 11:20 pm)col87 wrote [ -> ]Well in Hartlepool people don’t have a clue as had to tell a few people at the Asda stop to cross over get the 23 24 from the Museum. With how slow Hartlepool borough council / connect Tees Vally can be at times they might just have the Timetable there by new year.

The bus stop signs in the Town centre still reference the X35 (GNE) and SNE service 4. Both been a few years since thst ran.

(31 Oct 2022, 11:20 pm)col87 wrote [ -> ]Well in Hartlepool people don’t have a clue as had to tell a few people at the Asda stop to cross over get the 23 24 from the Museum. With how slow Hartlepool borough council / connect Tees Vally can be at times they might just have the Timetable there by new year.

Maybe connectteesvalley need a email or call to let them know, DCC already changed the bus stop timetables about 5 days prior to the bus changes in County Durham.


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(02 Nov 2022, 5:53 pm)cbma06 wrote [ -> ]Maybe connectteesvalley need a email or call to let them know, DCC already changed the bus stop timetables about 5 days prior to the bus changes in County Durham.

In County Durham there seems to be a mix of updated and not updated timetables since the changes last weekend, think a lot of the ones that are yet to be done are ones along routes that had to go out to tender again following Scarlet Band's closure.

(02 Nov 2022, 6:58 pm)Jimmi wrote [ -> ]In County Durham there seems to be a mix of updated and not updated timetables since the changes last weekend, think a lot of the ones that are yet to be done are ones along routes that had to go out to tender again following Scarlet Band's closure.

I’ve seen them come out to put new timetable sheets in at the bus stops for the 22/23/24 in east Durham the week before, yea it was up to the last minute scramble for the scarlet band contracts , probably more important trying to find bus operators to secure what scarlet band originally won and held.


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5th November the 308 will extend to Bebside for the fireworks. Does this service get extra buses put on for the evening to run to Bebside

(02 Nov 2022, 7:27 pm)cbma06 wrote [ -> ]I’ve seen them come out to put new timetable sheets in at the bus stops for the 22/23/24 in east Durham the week before, yea it was up to the last minute scramble for the scarlet band contracts , probably more important trying to find bus operators to secure what scarlet band originally won and held.


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In Aycliffe its a mix of updated and not updated, on Saturday one stop only served by the 5/5A had been updated but noticed another stop served by the 17 & works 952 (which I think is now withdrawn) is out of date, multiple stops along the likes of the 47 & 52 routes in County Durham still had old timetables with Scarlet Band on but at the same time, Ferryhill Market Place had an upto date one with Hodgsons noted as operating service 113.

(02 Nov 2022, 7:41 pm)Aaron21 wrote [ -> ]5th November the 308 will extend to Bebside for the fireworks. Does this service get extra buses put on for the evening to run to Bebside

Yes it does, it’s runs every 10 minutes alongside the normal 308s. I’m sure last year one of the 308s extended to Ashington or one of the buses got put on the 1 and the driver didn’t change his ticket machine ??‍♂️

(02 Nov 2022, 10:37 am)Economic505 wrote [ -> ]The bus stop signs in the Town centre still reference the X35 (GNE) and SNE service 4. Both been a few years since thst ran.

There's a bus stop on Chester Road in Sunderland referencing Stagecoach services 5/5A, and GNE services 2C and 78A.

Does anyone know if the extra 308s between South Beach and Bebside in Blyth are running tonight? Don't want to park my car in Bebside and get the 1 & 308 to the event if I'll be relying on an hourly timetable getting back...

(05 Nov 2022, 12:26 pm)omnicity4659 wrote [ -> ]Does anyone know if the extra 308s between South Beach and Bebside in Blyth are running tonight? Don't want to park my car in Bebside and get the 1 & 308 to the event if I'll be relying on an hourly timetable getting back...

Personally i'd play it safe

(05 Nov 2022, 2:50 pm)V514DFT wrote [ -> ]Personally i'd play it safe

So did everybody else it seems... although they were running, the first extra 308 back to Bebside was just about full but the following journeys were empty. 

No communication from Blyth Town Council or Arriva, so cue worse than usual parking chaos at the fireworks - totally avoidable had they said there were buses! 

I parked in the town centre and walked there and back... couldn't be arsed to see if a bus would have turned up.

(05 Nov 2022, 8:29 pm)omnicity4659 wrote [ -> ]So did everybody else it seems... although they were running, the first extra 308 back to Bebside was just about full but the following journeys were empty. 

No communication from Blyth Town Council or Arriva, so cue worse than usual parking chaos at the fireworks - totally avoidable had they said there were buses! 

I parked in the town centre and walked there and back... couldn't be arsed to see if a bus would have turned up.

Sounds about right, did you enjoy yourself though?

A Facebook post today shows Stagecoach Walkergate are taking over the 685 from the 10th of December


[attachment=10296]

From Arriva website:


In recent months, our services across the North East have unfortunately been impacted by the well documented national bus driver shortage.

This has escalated within the last few weeks particularly, resulting in serious challenges on the delivery of our timetabled services on a daily basis in some parts of the region.

We want to assure you, our customers, we’re exploring every avenue possible to rectify this situation.

We’re mindful of how negatively we are affecting some of our customers and our communities every day, and for this are we genuinely sorry.

As a priority action, work is underway to review our current timetables and service frequencies within parts of Tyne & Wear, with a view of potentially introducing small yet efficient changes in early 2023 which we believe will help to support positive service delivery in hot spots across the North East. These plans are currently being shared and discussed with local authority leads where appropriate, whom we are working in partnership with, to further show our commitment to righting the current challenges being experienced across our bus network.

Arriva has a highly targeted recruitment campaign underway, which has already welcomed over 280 new drivers into the North East region this year. To further boost our ‘on the road’ capacity as quickly as possible, we’re utilising agency driver resource in the coming weeks, helping to bridge the gap whilst some of our newly recruited Arriva drivers undergo their training programme.

We’ll continue to keep our customers and stakeholders updated on our plans and timelines of service delivery supporting changes being implemented.


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I smell service withdrawls on the horizon

Arriva appear to be telling local authorities that they intend to recruit the number of drivers required to run the current timetables long term, and return some services back to the pre-pandemic level once it is possible.

They are also sending a representative to a meeting with North Tyneside Councillors on Wednesday 7th to discuss issues and update on the short term plans.

(29 Nov 2022, 10:59 am)V514DFT wrote [ -> ]I smell service withdrawls on the horizon

Looking at the sheer resource and costs required, is there any value of Arriva keeping the 47/51/52/53/54/55?

That's the big question. It would be a shame if they withdrew and left for Nexus/NCC to re-tender. Clearly arguments for and against Arriva keeping them services especially as other users have mentioned them feeding to / from the "moneymakers" (i.e X10/X11 from Blyth to Cramlingtom then 52 to Freeman)

(29 Nov 2022, 10:59 am)V514DFT wrote [ -> ]I smell service withdrawls on the horizon

Can't see it personally I have a feeling it's going to be something like:

43 - Every 30 Minutes
44 - Hourly
45 - Hourly
51 - No Changes
52 - Hourly
53 - Hourly
54 - Hourly
55 - No Changes

They're the routes which they've pretty much abandoned the last few weeks, Blyth are definitely prioritising the X7/X8/X9/X10/X11 over them. The 'Tyne and Wear' is very noticeable which suggest it's not going to be the routes going into Northumberland.

Mind Sandy Lane is not helping either so pulling the X7/X8 via West Moor would improve things massively, they're pretty much consistently 15 minutes late every day lately.

(29 Nov 2022, 3:51 pm)Storx wrote [ -> ]Can't see it personally I have a feeling it's going to be something like:

43 - Every 30 Minutes
44 - Hourly
45 - Hourly
51 - No Changes
52 - Hourly
53 - Hourly
54 - Hourly
55 - No Changes

They're the routes which they've pretty much abandoned the last few weeks, Blyth are definitely prioritising the X7/X8/X9/X10/X11 over them. The 'Tyne and Wear' is very noticeable which suggest it's not going to be the routes going into Northumberland.

Mind Sandy Lane is not helping either so pulling the X7/X8 via West Moor would improve things massively, they're pretty much consistently 15 minutes late every day lately.

But how's that going to do things any good? Not deflecting criticism from GNE either as they cut some frequencies for similar reasons.

43/44/45 for starters are money makers. 53 already hourly in parts. 52 already hourly on Saturdays and 54 already hourly.

The sheer business case for keeping the 50's going faced with other issues......Arriva could sort all driver number issues out overnight and even streamline a few things whilst at it too.

If Arriva see an actual business case for keeping the 50's, then good luck to them.

(29 Nov 2022, 4:18 pm)L469 YVK wrote [ -> ]The sheer business case for keeping the 50's going faced with other issues......Arriva could sort all driver number issues out overnight and even streamline a few things whilst at it too.

If Arriva see an actual business case for keeping the 50's, then good luck to them.

Feels like you've got some sort of vested interest in Arriva binning off 6 routes... 

"If Arriva see an actual business case....then good luck to them" - Arriva will have years worth of data to make these decisions with, including in depth passenger trends and financials. I highly doubt that in the next network planning meeting they'll sit down and start with "It's been fun, but L469 YVK doesn't think we should run these services, so let's just bin the lot and ignore the extensive financial data we have on them".

(29 Nov 2022, 4:18 pm)L469 YVK wrote [ -> ]But how's that going to do things any good? Not deflecting criticism from GNE either as they cut some frequencies for similar reasons.

43/44/45 for starters are money makers. 53 already hourly in parts. 52 already hourly on Saturdays and 54 already hourly.

The sheer business case for keeping the 50's going faced with other issues......Arriva could sort all driver number issues out overnight and even streamline a few things whilst at it too.

If Arriva see an actual business case for keeping the 50's, then good luck to them.

How do you know the 50's don't make money? It's better to keep some level of service to everywhere than cutting stuff altogether. If they were going to scrap them altogether they would've done it long before now.

The 43 every 30 minutes is more than enough; the 44/45 farce is just awkward currently with awkward 20/40 timetables and there's not much difference between a 10 minute and 15 minute service through the core section but that said the 43/44/45 has generally been alright the past week or so, it's the 50's which are allover the place still.

I wouldn't be too surprised if the 306/308 went down to every 20 minutes temporarily either tbh.

Those changes should be enough to sort most of it out if they're agency staff in aswell. Heck maybe the 43/44/45 might not have to be even changed, there's plenty going free from the Metro closure ending next week.

(29 Nov 2022, 5:03 pm)mb134 wrote [ -> ]Feels like you've got some sort of vested interest in Arriva binning off 6 routes... 

"If Arriva see an actual business case....then good luck to them" - Arriva will have years worth of data to make these decisions with, including in depth passenger trends and financials. I highly doubt that in the next network planning meeting they'll sit down and start with "It's been fun, but L469 YVK doesn't think we should run these services, so let's just bin the lot and ignore the extensive financial data we have on them".

Ok saying years of data, but bearing in mind what's been happening the last two years plus the current situation:

- Dead mileage
- Driver shortages and costs of rectifying including agency staff
- Long term upkeep of fleet required
- Risk of losing evening & Sunday work
- Bus recovery grants coming to an end

Fair enough if the data supports it. But if not, are Arriva going to go to the effort to find drivers to fill the gaps plus the costs associated, when they can scale back, all issues resolved and still make money carrying a rammed double decker into Newcastle from Blyth, Ashington or up the Coast Road.

(29 Nov 2022, 6:16 pm)L469 YVK wrote [ -> ]Ok saying years of data, but bearing in mind what's been happening the last two years plus the current situation:

- Dead mileage
- Driver shortages and costs of rectifying including agency staff
- Long term upkeep of fleet required
- Risk of losing evening & Sunday work
- Bus recovery grants coming to an end

Fair enough if the data supports it. But if not, are Arriva going to go to the effort to find drivers to fill the gaps plus the costs associated, when they can scale back, all issues resolved and still make money carrying a rammed double decker into Newcastle from Blyth, Ashington or up the Coast Road.

Does the fact that they're splashing out on agency drivers to fulfill service not imply that the services are deemed important enough to justify that cost?

You could have these arguments about any routes - the 21 and X21 have increased dead mileage now compared to when operated from CLS, coupled with a driver shortage and "long term upkeep of fleet" (would like to see any bus company that doesn't have expenses for fleet maintenance...). Are GNE going to bin them off? Obviously not.

Has dead milage even increased. Whitley Bay / Tynemouth, Cramlington, Dinnington, Morpeth, Ashington etc are as close to Blyth and Ashington than they are Jesmond where a lot of the boards start from. If there's any which start/end in Newcastle I'm sure they could easily be cancelled as no-one wants to head out in the morning or to Newcastle late at night.

Also there's no issues with the Arriva Northumbria fleet the oldest single Decker now is a 61 plate excluding the Solo's which I'm sure won't be around much longer and they've just released 09/59 Plate's as spares. Total contrast to another operator aka Stagecoach who are getting second hand 59 Plate junk for frontline service.

One thing that's being ignored (and it's been mentioned) is the cost for a full depot.

The driver situation at GNE is worse than Arriva considering half the network has been butchered or is still on limited service whether that's temporary or not, who knows and they're in an absolute dire straight by doing exactly what's been said here including a mishandled depot closure.

(29 Nov 2022, 6:29 pm)mb134 wrote [ -> ]Does the fact that they're splashing out on agency drivers to fulfill service not imply that the services are deemed important enough to justify that cost?

You could have these arguments about any routes - the 21 and X21 have increased dead mileage now compared to when operated from CLS, coupled with a driver shortage and "long term upkeep of fleet" (would like to see any bus company that doesn't have expenses for fleet maintenance...). Are GNE going to bin them off? Obviously not.

X21 and 21 are goldmines compared to a few 'local services'.