(14 Feb 2026, 5:47 pm)220631612 wrote [ -> ]Your arguement doesn’t make any sense as there’s already much longer routes in existence. I don’t see you petitioning for the X4, X12, X14, X15, X18, X93/4 to be sliced because they’re too long…
None of those routes are comparable at all though, they're rural routes along country roads mostly with very little road traffic and end to end journeys exists, X12 aside and that thing in unreliable as an understatement at the Birtley side (or used to be)
It's not the length which is the issue, it's the lack of through journeys at the Redcar side and a serious bottle neck (Dixon Bank area) on the route with no regulation point for the Redcar operated vehicles. It's all good saying there's time to have a nap at Marske but the bus has to get there first.
The Redcar to Middlesbrough is a good move tho imo.
The 57/57A is horrific for it (but the timetable is tight) and so are all the Blyth routes because of their interworking but credit to the ground staff they regulate them well at Blyth Bus Station so it's not an issue (there's no option for this here on Redcar operated boards).
(14 Feb 2026, 7:52 pm)Storx wrote [ -> ]None of those routes are comparable at all though, they're rural routes along country roads mostly with very little road traffic and end to end journeys exists, X12 aside and that thing in unreliable as an understatement at the Birtley side (or used to be)
It's not the length which is the issue, it's the lack of through journeys at the Redcar side and a serious bottle neck (Dixon Bank area) on the route with no regulation point for the Redcar operated vehicles. It's all good saying there's time to have a nap at Marske but the bus has to get there first.
The Redcar to Middlesbrough is a good move tho imo.
The 57/57A is horrific for it (but the timetable is tight) and so are all the Blyth routes because of their interworking but credit to the ground staff they regulate them well at Blyth Bus Station so it's not an issue (there's no option for this here on Redcar operated boards).
But if they have 15-20 min sit up at Marske then where’s the issue? That should be enough to cover most delays! Anything beyond that would destroy most services…
(14 Feb 2026, 9:29 pm)tyresmoke wrote [ -> ]But if they have 15-20 min sit up at Marske then where’s the issue? That should be enough to cover most delays! Anything beyond that would destroy most services…
From a passenger view, the delays. Arguably the timetable doesn't work if it needs 15 minutes to recover half the boards, especially if it's spent the last 40 minutes, running 15 minutes late.
Obviously no arguments about you can't have more layovers - I wouldn't expect it and I haven't seen the timetable so there might not be delays - hopefully.
All this fuss about the 81? Delays, layovers whatever. Why not simply leave alone something that isn't, as things stand, broken but soon could be under the proposed new timetable. Service 81 provides a very important link not only between the two principal towns en route but to the estates it serves at either end.
Yes, consideration is being given to allow for delays, extra running time - nothing worse here when drivers have to sit and wait at the numerous timing points - but why so? Leave well alone is what I say.
(15 Feb 2026, 7:11 am)Mrobisdave4554 wrote [ -> ]All this fuss about the 81? Delays, layovers whatever. Why not simply leave alone something that isn't, as things stand, broken but soon could be under the proposed new timetable. Service 81 provides a very important link not only between the two principal towns en route but to the estates it serves at either end.
Yes, consideration is being given to allow for delays, extra running time - nothing worse here when drivers have to sit and wait at the numerous timing points - but why so? Leave well alone is what I say.
Issue with leaving well alone is that the 81 is currently a very delicate operation. There’s nowhere near enough recovery time within it for a reliable operation. It’s part of the reason it’s being incorporated into the 28 as it allows both routes to be ran more reliably without the cost of extra resources.
Think I can see through that now. Correct me if I'm wrong please. Presently it works with a 2 vehicle requirement and a fact, given my experience of it, timings aren't exactly generous. Increasing extra resources to the present model wouldn't be economically viable therefore we're getting the changes.
(15 Feb 2026, 1:01 pm)robisdave4554 wrote [ -> ]Think I can see through that now. Correct me if I'm wrong please. Presently it works with a 2 vehicle requirement and a fact, given my experience of it, timings aren't exactly generous. Increasing extra resources to the present model wouldn't be economically viable therefore we're getting the changes.
You'll get the extra time by removing them duplicating each other in Guisborough, works out at about 15 minutes I believe.
Both are 2 buses though, so it'll be 4 after combined.
X14 has a Variation from the 29th March so im guessing this is just the extra Cragside journeys
Evening 306 & 308 will interwork from 22nd March by the looks of things.
Took me a while and a scan of Bus Times for the penny to drop. I couldn't understand the word "duplicate?" Its right though both services 28&81 do in fact run in and out of Guisborough thus creating unnecessary duplication. Whoever thought this one up deserves credit.
.
Is the 306 still going to Whitley Bay or Marden Estate. No timetable on traveline seems to show this anymore
(19 Feb 2026, 5:37 pm)Nerd4321 wrote [ -> ]https://www.arrivabus.co.uk/latest-news/...06-and-308
This was good while it lasted
Why do the timetables still seem to be coordinated? Quite a poor show from GNE, Arriva & NECA.
There's never been less than a 7-8 minute core service either joint (including in this case) or by a single operator along the Coast Road.
Yes there's cost challenges - but this was an opportunity for all parties to work together and think outside the box - restructuring routes and making change for the better!
Arriva have the advantage of Blyth depot - GNE have the advantage of Percy Main depot and to an extent, a depot at the Newcastle end of the route (Riverside). Queue the church bells & tumbleweed with Kim's PR stunts and never ending pledge to franchise.
Major let down from all involved.
(19 Feb 2026, 6:41 pm)L469 YVK wrote [ -> ]Why do the timetables still seem to be coordinated? Quite a poor show from GNE, Arriva & NECA.
There's never been less than a 7-8 minute core service either joint (including in this case) or by a single operator along the Coast Road.
Yes there's cost challenges - but this was an opportunity for all parties to work together and think outside the box - restructuring routes and making change for the better!
Arriva have the advantage of Blyth depot - GNE have the advantage of Percy Main depot and to an extent, a depot at the Newcastle end of the route (Riverside). Queue the church bells & tumbleweed with Kim's PR stunts and never ending pledge to franchise.
Major let down from all involved.
Only one of those parties ended the agreement by the sounds of it.
As soon as that notice was served, competition law immediately takes over and prevents any discussions of that kind.
Fingers arguably can only point to one organisation of the three involved.
(19 Feb 2026, 7:34 pm)Superman wrote [ -> ]Only one of those parties ended the agreement by the sounds of it.
As soon as that notice was served, competition law immediately takes over and prevents any discussions of that kind.
Fingers arguably can only point to one organisation of the three involved.
True - but why has NECA not been positively engaging with all parties concerned to prevent this from happening?
And I don't get how the timetables are still quite closely aligned.
Only losers are going to be the public unfortunately.
I'm still very surprised Arriva haven't taken advantage of BSIP like GNE & Stagecoach did for the 56, 21 and 1.....unless they're waiting for more new buses to turn up to prevent a s***show at the detriment of the wider operation perhaps.
(19 Feb 2026, 8:28 pm)L469 YVK wrote [ -> ]I'm still very surprised Arriva haven't taken advantage of BSIP like GNE & Stagecoach did for the 56, 21 and 1.....unless they're waiting for more new buses to turn up to prevent a s***show at the detriment of the wider operation perhaps.
They did. The X16, 43 and 57A are either fully or partially BSIP funded.
(20 Feb 2026, 8:46 am)Storx wrote [ -> ]They did. The X16, 43 and 57A are either fully or partially BSIP funded.
777 & 419 & 434 are the same i believe. Least one company can actually use it to expand and work with a network unlike upping a service that carries Ghosts half the time "cough 21 & 1 cough"
(20 Feb 2026, 8:53 am)Nerd4321 wrote [ -> ]777 & 419 & 434 are the same i believe. Least one company can actually use it to expand and work with a network unlike upping a service that carries Ghosts half the time "cough 21 & 1 cough"
Yeah they are, the 415, 460 and X30 are aswell. Infact there's funding on the X8 aswell with the later boards - forgot about that one.
Not sure if there's anything over the Hexham area though, can't think of anything that way.
Agreed it's much better use of money though, might aswell try something new than subsidising an already frequent route. Let's be honest the average joe isn't going to avoid a bus because it's every 15 minutes rather than every 12 minutes, unless they really are weird.
(20 Feb 2026, 9:34 am)Storx wrote [ -> ]Yeah they are, the 415, 460 and X30 are aswell. Infact there's funding on the X8 aswell with the later boards - forgot about that one.
Not sure if there's anything over the Hexham area though, can't think of anything that way.
Agreed it's much better use of money though, might aswell try something new than subsidising an already frequent route. Let's be honest the average joe isn't going to avoid a bus because it's every 15 minutes rather than every 12 minutes, unless they really are weird.
Its what confused me so much. Arriva pushed with this funding and have done well with it. Extra bus to Ashington replacing what was the morning & evening 52 journeys. 43 now going to Morpeth every 30. Giving residents in Morpeth a direct link to Airport instead of having to get the metro from Regent or Newcastle (if your that odd). The 415/460 Giving people links on a Saturday to do shopping, Giving people the opportunity to vist Wallington Hall & extending the 434. All works well
But what to Stagecoach & GNE do. Let's up the frequency on a route cause we can. The 21 & 1 now carry a lot of dust now due to the fact they run every 7 minutes and most the time end up following the other bus anyway.
Ive been in town most days to see three 1s together or two 21s together. Like did it really need a every 7 minute frequency. Like i cant suspect a lot of people are using the 21 between Newcastle & Chester 6 days a week and the 1 between Coach Lane & the West end
(20 Feb 2026, 9:42 am)Nerd4321 wrote [ -> ]Its what confused me so much. Arriva pushed with this funding and have done well with it. Extra bus to Ashington replacing what was the morning & evening 52 journeys. 43 now going to Morpeth every 30. Giving residents in Morpeth a direct link to Airport instead of having to get the metro from Regent or Newcastle (if your that odd). The 415/460 Giving people links on a Saturday to do shopping, Giving people the opportunity to vist Wallington Hall & extending the 434. All works well
But what to Stagecoach & GNE do. Let's up the frequency on a route cause we can. The 21 & 1 now carry a lot of dust now due to the fact they run every 7 minutes and most the time end up following the other bus anyway.
Ive been in town most days to see three 1s together or two 21s together. Like did it really need a every 7 minute frequency. Like i cant suspect a lot of people are using the 21 between Newcastle & Chester 6 days a week and the 1 between Coach Lane & the West end
Aye totally agreed to be honest; not going to lie I've always been surprised they haven't curtailed some of the 21's shorter than Chester Le Street. They're really not busy at that end of the route, especially beyond Birtley Morrisons, but the Low Fell section probably does deserve the more frequent service. With CLS depot shut, you could arguably turn them anywhere now really. Ironic because the housing 2 streets behind have a token hourly service Mon - Sat Daytimes to Newcastle.
The 1 is one hell of an annoying route imo; used to live on it at the far end of Heaton when I was at uni and it just takes forever stopping at every bus stop (used to walk to the Coast Road like a few others did) - which causes the stacking, it is very busy though tbf. The route probably does warrant being 8 buses an hour though; just not sure why the tax payer is paying for it though. A student isn't going to not use it either way.
Very surprised the route hasn't had electrics though considering where it goes, I'd imagine the residential streets in Heaton would massively appreciate them as the Diesel E400's aren't quiet outside your door 16 times an hour and I'm not someone who is generally bothered by stuff like that (have a flight path here).
(20 Feb 2026, 9:51 am)Storx wrote [ -> ]Aye totally agreed to be honest; not going to lie I've always been surprised they haven't curtailed some of the 21's shorter than Chester Le Street. They're really not busy at that end of the route, especially beyond Birtley Morrisons, but the Low Fell section probably does deserve the more frequent service. With CLS depot shut, you could arguably turn them anywhere now really. Ironic because the housing 2 streets behind have a token hourly service Mon - Sat Daytimes to Newcastle.
The 1 is one hell of an annoying route imo; used to live on it at the far end of Heaton when I was at uni and it just takes forever stopping at every bus stop (used to walk to the Coast Road like a few others did) - which causes the stacking, it is very busy though tbf. The route probably does warrant being 8 buses an hour though; just not sure why the tax payer is paying for it though. A student isn't going to not use it either way.
Very surprised the route hasn't had electrics though considering where it goes, I'd imagine the residential streets in Heaton would massively appreciate them as the Diesel E400's aren't quiet outside your door 16 times an hour and I'm not someone who is generally bothered by stuff like that (have a flight path here).
The 1 is an odd route which I agree with you with it stopping absolutely everywhere. Take Newcastle as a prime example
Central Station, Grainger Street, Market Street, Pilgrim Street, John Dobson Street. The 1 is the only bus route to serve Market Street & Pilgrim Street. It stops at the top of Market Street then stop round the Corner at Pilgrim Street. It confused me so much and it feels like everyone wants to be off at every single stop. I did the 1 from Heaton to Newcastle. I believe we stopped at every single stop. This was a Saturday as well which was did stump me a bit. Like id understand for a Monday to Friday morning or evening but not in the middle of the day on a Saturday
(20 Feb 2026, 9:59 am)Nerd4321 wrote [ -> ]The 1 is an odd route which I agree with you with it stopping absolutely everywhere. Take Newcastle as a prime example
Central Station, Grainger Street, Market Street, Pilgrim Street, John Dobson Street. The 1 is the only bus route to serve Market Street & Pilgrim Street. It stops at the top of Market Street then stop round the Corner at Pilgrim Street. It confused me so much and it feels like everyone wants to be off at every single stop. I did the 1 from Heaton to Newcastle. I believe we stopped at every single stop. This was a Saturday as well which was did stump me a bit. Like id understand for a Monday to Friday morning or evening but not in the middle of the day on a Saturday
Aye, it's a good little route really; one of the busiest in the North East really. It's all students at the East side I know that and it's pretty much what everyone is told to use; believe there's free student tickets on parts of it aswell or there used to be anyway towards Coach Lane.
They just badly need to do something about shocking parking in parts, must be one of hell of a awful route to drive, especially Simonside Terrace.
(20 Feb 2026, 9:51 am)Storx wrote [ -> ]Aye totally agreed to be honest; not going to lie I've always been surprised they haven't curtailed some of the 21's shorter than Chester Le Street. They're really not busy at that end of the route, especially beyond Birtley Morrisons, but the Low Fell section probably does deserve the more frequent service. With CLS depot shut, you could arguably turn them anywhere now really. Ironic because the housing 2 streets behind have a token hourly service Mon - Sat Daytimes to Newcastle.
I'm not sure where the idea the 21 carries fresh air past certain points is coming from - it absolutely doesn't - and as much as we deride it, BSIP required strong and factual business cases with relevant data.
On a weekend especially, the service is regularly full by the time it departs Birtley - agree additional resource for Low Fell in this case - perhaps running a short 21 to Angel and turning at Eighton Lodge would solve this.
As much as I question GNE, it feels a convenient and lazy stick to beat them with.
(20 Feb 2026, 8:46 am)Storx wrote [ -> ]They did. The X16, 43 and 57A are either fully or partially BSIP funded.
True, but them and some of the others are more socially essential & have benefits to BSIP use.
Whereas Stagecoach Newcastle's 1 and GNE's 21 & 56 are core and arguably 'goldmine' routes.
Had second thoughts this morning but maybe NECA couldn't give BSIP to Arriva for re-increasing the 306 & 308 because if they did, then it's likely under competition law that GNE could reasonably ask for the same for the 307 & 309.
(19 Feb 2026, 8:28 pm)L469 YVK wrote [ -> ]True - but why has NECA not been positively engaging with all parties concerned to prevent this from happening?
And I don't get how the timetables are still quite closely aligned.
Only losers are going to be the public unfortunately.
I'm still very surprised Arriva haven't taken advantage of BSIP like GNE & Stagecoach did for the 56, 21 and 1.....unless they're waiting for more new buses to turn up to prevent a s***show at the detriment of the wider operation perhaps.
Who's to say they haven't been? Sounds like a unilateral decision, I struggle to see what Arriva or NECA have done wrong here unless there's more happened behind the scenes.
Agree though that the public are the overall losers in this.
(20 Feb 2026, 1:34 pm)Chris 1 wrote [ -> ]Who's to say they haven't been? Sounds like a unilateral decision, I struggle to see what Arriva or NECA have done wrong here unless there's more happened behind the scenes.
Agree though that the public are the overall losers in this.
Unless GNE are making money in their strongholds and decided they don't need the partnership as such?
Not going to lie but most times I've travelled through High Farm on both the 307 & 309, theu do always pick up well and quite often tend to run late doing so.
L469 YVK
Unless GNE are making money in their strongholds and decided they don't need the partnership as such?
Not going to lie but most times I've travelled through High Farm on both the 307 & 309, theu do always pick up well and quite often tend to run late doing so.
Go North East wanted to reduce the frequency of their services to some extent. That’s why they withdrew
(20 Feb 2026, 11:04 am)Ambassador wrote [ -> ]I'm not sure where the idea the 21 carries fresh air past certain points is coming from - it absolutely doesn't - and as much as we deride it, BSIP required strong and factual business cases with relevant data.
On a weekend especially, the service is regularly full by the time it departs Birtley - agree additional resource for Low Fell in this case - perhaps running a short 21 to Angel and turning at Eighton Lodge would solve this.
As much as I question GNE, it feels a convenient and lazy stick to beat them with.
Oh no arguments definitely don't think it carries fresh air, that's just silly, but does it need to be 7.5 minutes all the way to CLS I'm unsure.
Tbh when I posted that I was thinking more deviating at Birtley, and doing something different.
I'm sure there's loads of ideas but considering there's subsidised routes in all directions (25/28/81) could it maybe have been an option to sort one of, or even more out, since the tax payer is paying for it anyway.
If anything it was a dig at Nexus for not using it as an opportunity to deal with some of the existing routes.
The 43/44/45 to North of Newcastle is a similar route and that's what that does really.
N&P advises that there has been a new route 3 registered between Bebside station and Blyth bus station, effective 22 March.