North East Buses

How the hell are gct providing more service work when they have won 3 more service in March

(13 Mar 2023, 4:39 pm)PAaron21 wrote [ -> ]How the hell are gct providing more service work when they have won 3 more service in March

I'd imagine with the work they have drivers will have various licences enabling flexibility between Taxi's and Buses to match business demands, other than the Taxi Contract at Tesco's Trinity Square you don't really see many of there Taxis about in comparison to say Deans where you see them here there and everywhere across Gateshead.

Not only do GCT have the youngest fleet of in the North East, but they now perhaps cover the most distance from one depot ranging from Ashington to Hartlepool. Not bad for a small operator.

(14 Mar 2023, 5:00 pm)MurdnunoC wrote [ -> ]Not only do GCT have the youngest fleet of in the North East, but they now perhaps cover the most distance from one depot ranging from Ashington to Hartlepool. Not bad for a small operator.

At what point do they stop being a 'small' operator?

(14 Mar 2023, 5:07 pm)streetdeckfan wrote [ -> ]At what point do they stop being a 'small' operator?

Good question. Despite all the negativity surrounding their operations, some on here need to accept that they're here to stay and are, arguably, the dominant operator in some areas.

(14 Mar 2023, 5:00 pm)MurdnunoC wrote [ -> ]Not only do GCT have the youngest fleet of in the North East, but they now perhaps cover the most distance from one depot ranging from Ashington to Hartlepool. Not bad for a small operator.

Where did you get Ashington from? I think the new 19 contract only has it going as far as Northumberland Park Metro.

(15 Mar 2023, 7:39 am)NEbushopper wrote [ -> ]Where did you get Ashington from? I think the new 19 contract only has it going as far as Northumberland Park Metro.

It's the same as now, 1 BPH Cramlington to North Shields, 1 BPH N'land Park to North Shields, one in the morning and one in the evening extended to Ashington.

https://www.nexus.org.uk/sites/default/f...260323.pdf

From Trimdon times Facebook page:

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_f...4620946639


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

---

(19 Mar 2023, 11:06 am)cbma06 wrote [ -> ]From Trimdon times Facebook page:

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_f...4620946639


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

---

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Just realised for Arriva's / Nexus' changes:

- 54 leaves Cobalt during the evening at xx:29 and arrives into Whitley Bay for xx:41

- Arriva 308 departs Whitley Bay at xx:50

So if Arriva tickets can be used on the Nexus secured service provided by Stagecoach, it's a win / win for passengers. Plus Arriva tickets can also be used on the 309 too heading from Blyth to Cobalt if passengers pre-pay on the app or buy an Arriva ticket on another Arriva service.

(19 Mar 2023, 11:06 am)cbma06 wrote [ -> ]From Trimdon times Facebook page:

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_f...4620946639


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

---

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

---

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Freedom of information request on 'Whatdotheyknow' suggests that DCC do pay Arriva a significant amount of money towards Service 57/57A.

Arriva say the contract has ended, yet this local cllr is suggesting Arriva decision? Sounds like both blaming each other.

(19 Mar 2023, 10:00 pm)RobinHood wrote [ -> ]Freedom of information request on 'Whatdotheyknow' suggests that DCC do pay Arriva a significant amount of money towards Service 57/57A.

Arriva say the contract has ended, yet this local cllr is suggesting Arriva decision? Sounds like both blaming each other.

Believe they're both technically right.

As far as I'm aware the 57 Durham to Kelloe and 57A throughout was commercial (it's all it was until a few year ago) until they won the 58 and extended the 57 through to Hartlepool.

Seems Arriva registered to cancel the 57 outright and 57A from Trimdon to Hartlepool but appears Durham pulled the plug for the 57 extension at the same time (now the 59).

(19 Mar 2023, 11:05 pm)Storx wrote [ -> ]Believe they're both technically right.

As far as I'm aware the 57 Durham to Kelloe and 57A throughout was commercial (it's all it was until a few year ago) until they won the 58 and extended the 57 through to Hartlepool.

Seems Arriva registered to cancel the 57 outright and 57A from Trimdon to Hartlepool but appears Durham pulled the plug for the 57 extension at the same time (now the 59).

I think Arriva were commercial between Durham and Kelloe originally on 57 and Durham to Trimdon on 57A.

Kelloe to Hartlepool and Trimdon to Hartlepool (formally a 33!) are the contacted elements.

I think you are right though, Arriva originally registered a Durham to Trimdon, but looks like DCC have asked them to do something different whilst they procure the connection. All very last minute!

(20 Mar 2023, 6:18 pm)RobinHood wrote [ -> ]I think Arriva were commercial between Durham and Kelloe originally on 57 and Durham to Trimdon on 57A.

Kelloe to Hartlepool and Trimdon to Hartlepool (formally a 33!) are the contacted elements.

I think you are right though, Arriva originally registered a Durham to Trimdon, but looks like DCC have asked them to do something different whilst they procure the connection. All very last minute!

Aye wasn't sure on the Hartlepool to Trimdon bit. It all seems a bit of a mess to me, the 57A surely would be the better service to be linked to Durham than what is since the vast majority of the 57(58) has the 22 serving it anyway or a frequent service to connect to another service in Wingate.

Instead we've got the Trimdon's with no link to Durham and people are living in cloud cuckoo land if they expect people to change onto a 2 hour service with no doubt no guaranteed connection.

(20 Mar 2023, 7:26 pm)Storx wrote [ -> ]Aye wasn't sure on the Hartlepool to Trimdon bit. It all seems a bit of a mess to me, the 57A surely would be the better service to be linked to Durham than what is since the vast majority of the 57(58) has the 22 serving it anyway or a frequent service to connect to another service in Wingate.

Instead we've got the Trimdon's with no link to Durham and people are living in cloud cuckoo land if they expect people to change onto a 2 hour service with no doubt no guaranteed connection.

The timetables I've posted do seem to stress that the connections *should* work, in theory although I do have that bit of doubt about it working in practice... in particular when connecting between the 59 and the 58 at Kelloe when heading towards Durham, one thought is, what happens if the 59 were to be delayed? There's only a 4 min connection at Kelloe to the 58, if Arriva won't wait for the 59, then passengers are going to be booted off in Kelloe with an hour to wait until the next bus.


This is the notes on the timetable:

Durham bound:
When connecting at Kelloe, incoming 59 to wait at Aged Miners until Arriva 58 arrives, so 58 is aware of connection having been made

Hartlepool bound:
59 to await incoming 58 UNLESS Arriva tracker shows cancelled or severely delayed.

Timetables from Trimdon Times Facebook, amongst posts suggesting it's all about Tory Bus Cuts and petitions in relation to these changes.[attachment=10423][attachment=10424]

(21 Mar 2023, 12:47 am)Jimmi wrote [ -> ]The timetables I've posted do seem to stress that the connections *should* work, in theory although I do have that bit of doubt about it working in practice... in particular when connecting between the 59 and the 58 at Kelloe when heading towards Durham, one thought is, what happens if the 59 were to be delayed? There's only a 4 min connection at Kelloe to the 58, if Arriva won't wait for the 59, then passengers are going to be booted off in Kelloe with an hour to wait until the next bus.


This is the notes on the timetable:

Durham bound:
When connecting at Kelloe, incoming 59 to wait at Aged Miners until Arriva 58 arrives, so 58 is aware of connection having been made

Hartlepool bound:
59 to await incoming 58 UNLESS Arriva tracker shows cancelled or severely delayed.

Timetables from Trimdon Times Facebook, amongst posts suggesting it's all about Tory Bus Cuts and petitions in relation to these changes.

Just seems messy me, it's not a connection that I'd be doing personally as it's just risky imo and we all know it won't last for long.

It's a shame they couldn't work with Amazon and run a route similar to this: https://www.google.com/maps/dir/54.77810...720584!3e0

It's been a discussion for quite a while how to link Amazon into the network and two subsidised services are going nearby it. It would connect Durham, Hartlepool and pretty much all the pit villages to the place aswell. If it was marketed well (or at all) it could make at least some boards on the 57 commercial. The 2 and 4 at Darlington and Follingsby are both busy at peak times at least.

(21 Mar 2023, 12:47 am)Jimmi wrote [ -> ]The timetables I've posted do seem to stress that the connections *should* work, in theory although I do have that bit of doubt about it working in practice... in particular when connecting between the 59 and the 58 at Kelloe when heading towards Durham, one thought is, what happens if the 59 were to be delayed? There's only a 4 min connection at Kelloe to the 58, if Arriva won't wait for the 59, then passengers are going to be booted off in Kelloe with an hour to wait until the next bus.


This is the notes on the timetable:

Durham bound:
When connecting at Kelloe, incoming 59 to wait at Aged Miners until Arriva 58 arrives, so 58 is aware of connection having been made

Hartlepool bound:
59 to await incoming 58 UNLESS Arriva tracker shows cancelled or severely delayed.

Timetables from Trimdon Times Facebook, amongst posts suggesting it's all about Tory Bus Cuts and petitions in relation to these changes.

Stagecoach did some council runs for Oxford Council that involved guaranteed connections. 
Tried it once and it was a disaster to be honest. 

Paid for my single on the first bus, clarified the connection would be waiting for me in Bampton and the driver confirmed.

Got to Bampton, could see the connection waiting. My driver indicated the waiting bus could move on and there was nobody to make the change. 

Obviously I reminded the driver I was wanting that connection - cue flashing lights and beeping horns. 
Fortunately the second driver saw this and stopped the bus. 

Absolute shambles. 

Think they were less than hourly frequencies too. 

My bus was continuing to Witney, so a connection could have been made from there, but that wasn't the point. I wanted some new mileage and had paid for that particular journey.

(21 Mar 2023, 9:54 am)Andreos1 wrote [ -> ]Stagecoach did some council runs for Oxford Council that involved guaranteed connections. 
Tried it once and it was a disaster to be honest. 

Paid for my single on the first bus, clarified the connection would be waiting for me in Bampton and the driver confirmed.

Got to Bampton, could see the connection waiting. My driver indicated the waiting bus could move on and there was nobody to make the change. 

Obviously I reminded the driver I was wanting that connection - cue flashing lights and beeping horns. 
Fortunately the second driver saw this and stopped the bus. 

Absolute shambles. 

Think they were less than hourly frequencies too. 

My bus was continuing to Witney, so a connection could have been made from there, but that wasn't the point. I wanted some new mileage and had paid for that particular journey.

I've certainly seen some timetables from across the country where there's an indication in the timetable that the bus will wait, usually for around 10 minutes after departure in event of the delay of a connecting/bus rail service (the Wednesday only 572 from Ravenstonedale to Barnard Castle has this in the timetable for a connection from the rail service at Kirkby Stephen).

Dalesbus and Moorsbus have similar mentions in place but I've had connection issues on both, whilst it falls under marketing and ticketing for Moorsbus, the 128 isn't really involved in this so sure enough once when the M5 from Stokesley was delayed, the connection was missed (was literally approaching the 128 from behind and it pulled away from the stop at Helmsley on time). I almost fell foul to a similar occurrence on Dalesbus in the past where I was travelling from Ingleton on the 881 (Kirkby Lonsdale Coach Hire) where we would change to the 831 (Arriva Yorkshire) at Settle to reunite with the 830 (ANE) at Hawes to head home, only the driver on the 831 pulled away from Settle just as the 881 was approaching, fortunately in this instance at least, the driver came back to the stop otherwise we were either going to have to walk back to the station at Settle and use multiple trains at great cost to ourselves or stay on the 881 to Malham then get a selection of other Dalesbus services to eventually end up in Leeds where we'd still have to pay for trains to get home.

This 58/59 connection arrangement is not customer friendly in the slightest, all well and good putting that connections will be made but if it goes wrong in any form, it's going to be a major issue for passengers, missed connection at Kelloe to the 58 (1 hour wait for next bus unless you walk to Coxhoe), should the 59 decide not to wait at Kelloe for a 58 from Durham (2 hour wait for next 59). Many have already expressed their displeasure in this arrangement, including the likelihood that they've already faced cancellations with the current 57/57A so if a 58 which connects with a 59 should be cancelled, then its 2 hours wait for next 58/59 combo. There is also the question as to what would constitute a "severe delay" how long do we expect the 59 to hang around before departing?

Honestly, although it would take longer, if you live in the Trimdons at least, you'd argubly be better off connecting to/from the X12 & X21/X22 at Sedgefield, 58 & X21/X22 at Wingate/Station Town or change at Peterlee, these would take longer but have a more regular service although has the downsides of longer journey times and no through ticketing arrangements (can see the latter being a problem too).

(21 Mar 2023, 12:27 pm)Jimmi wrote [ -> ]I've certainly seen some timetables from across the country where there's an indication in the timetable that the bus will wait, usually for around 10 minutes after departure in event of the delay of a connecting/bus rail service (the Wednesday only 572 from Ravenstonedale to Barnard Castle has this in the timetable for a connection from the rail service at Kirkby Stephen).

Dalesbus and Moorsbus have similar mentions in place but I've had connection issues on both, whilst it falls under marketing and ticketing for Moorsbus, the 128 isn't really involved in this so sure enough once when the M5 from Stokesley was delayed, the connection was missed (was literally approaching the 128 from behind and it pulled away from the stop at Helmsley on time).  I almost fell foul to a similar occurrence on Dalesbus in the past where I was travelling from Ingleton on the 881 (Kirkby Lonsdale Coach Hire) where we would change to the 831 (Arriva Yorkshire) at Settle to reunite with the 830 (ANE) at Hawes to head home, only the driver on the 831 pulled away from Settle just as the 881 was approaching, fortunately in this instance at least, the driver came back to the stop otherwise we were either going to have to walk back to the station at Settle and use multiple trains at great cost to ourselves or stay on the 881 to Malham then get a selection of other Dalesbus services to eventually end up in Leeds where we'd still have to pay for trains to get home.

This 58/59 connection arrangement is not customer friendly in the slightest, all well and good putting that connections will be made but if it goes wrong in any form, it's going to be a major issue for passengers, missed connection at Kelloe to the 58 (1 hour wait for next bus unless you walk to Coxhoe), should the 59 decide not to wait at Kelloe for a 58 from Durham (2 hour wait for next 59). Many have already expressed their displeasure in this arrangement, including the likelihood that they've already faced cancellations with the current 57/57A so if a 58 which connects with a 59 should be cancelled, then its 2 hours wait for next 58/59 combo. There is also the question as to what would constitute a "severe delay" how long do we expect the 59 to hang around before departing?

Honestly, although it would take longer, if you live in the Trimdons at least, you'd argubly be better off connecting to/from the X12 & X21/X22 at Sedgefield, 58 & X21/X22 at Wingate/Station Town or change at Peterlee, these would take longer but have a more regular service although has the downsides of longer journey times and no through ticketing arrangements (can see the latter being a problem too).

Being rural or semi-rural in your examples, means there's  definitely a disadvantage. Particularly when there's a less frequent service.

Mind, the 4 and X1 have been a bugbear for years. 
Don't think it was ever promoted as a guaranteed connection, but there was a time when the connection was promoted.
The number of times one has been sitting and then pulled away as the other pulls in on an evening or Sunday... No wonder punters get disgruntled and look to make the switch away. 
Painful at the Galleries. Even more painful in the middle of nowhere.

Hopefully it will work better than the Sunday 58 which arriva assured passengers of the old GNE 59 would connect with the 64 for the Arnison Centre then, on its first run, arrived in Durham just as the 64 was leaving.

That's the same company not coordinating connections so I can't see arriva waiting around for another bus company if it throws their timetables out or even if nobody remembered to remind someone...

(21 Mar 2023, 4:54 pm)BusLoverMum wrote [ -> ]Hopefully it will work better than the Sunday 58 which arriva assured passengers of the old GNE 59 would connect with the 64 for the Arnison Centre then, on its first run, arrived in Durham just as the 64 was leaving.

That's the same company not coordinating connections so I can't see arriva waiting around for another bus company if it throws their timetables out or even if nobody remembered to remind someone...

Arriva is terrible at coordinating connections. On Sunday there is a route 2 bus that leaves at xx:00 ish and at about xx:05 ish there is an X14/X15 Bus that comes in from Rothbury/Alnwick. It annoys me so much because I sometimes might want to go to Bedlington or Blyth and I have to wait 55 minutes. I just wish there was some atempt at coordination.

(21 Mar 2023, 12:27 pm)Jimmi wrote [ -> ]I've certainly seen some timetables from across the country where there's an indication in the timetable that the bus will wait, usually for around 10 minutes after departure in event of the delay of a connecting/bus rail service (the Wednesday only 572 from Ravenstonedale to Barnard Castle has this in the timetable for a connection from the rail service at Kirkby Stephen).

Dalesbus and Moorsbus have similar mentions in place but I've had connection issues on both, whilst it falls under marketing and ticketing for Moorsbus, the 128 isn't really involved in this so sure enough once when the M5 from Stokesley was delayed, the connection was missed (was literally approaching the 128 from behind and it pulled away from the stop at Helmsley on time).  I almost fell foul to a similar occurrence on Dalesbus in the past where I was travelling from Ingleton on the 881 (Kirkby Lonsdale Coach Hire) where we would change to the 831 (Arriva Yorkshire) at Settle to reunite with the 830 (ANE) at Hawes to head home, only the driver on the 831 pulled away from Settle just as the 881 was approaching, fortunately in this instance at least, the driver came back to the stop otherwise we were either going to have to walk back to the station at Settle and use multiple trains at great cost to ourselves or stay on the 881 to Malham then get a selection of other Dalesbus services to eventually end up in Leeds where we'd still have to pay for trains to get home.

This 58/59 connection arrangement is not customer friendly in the slightest, all well and good putting that connections will be made but if it goes wrong in any form, it's going to be a major issue for passengers, missed connection at Kelloe to the 58 (1 hour wait for next bus unless you walk to Coxhoe), should the 59 decide not to wait at Kelloe for a 58 from Durham (2 hour wait for next 59). Many have already expressed their displeasure in this arrangement, including the likelihood that they've already faced cancellations with the current 57/57A so if a 58 which connects with a 59 should be cancelled, then its 2 hours wait for next 58/59 combo. There is also the question as to what would constitute a "severe delay" how long do we expect the 59 to hang around before departing?

Honestly, although it would take longer, if you live in the Trimdons at least, you'd argubly be better off connecting to/from the X12 & X21/X22 at Sedgefield, 58 & X21/X22 at Wingate/Station Town or change at Peterlee, these would take longer but have a more regular service although has the downsides of longer journey times and no through ticketing arrangements (can see the latter being a problem too).

Stagecoach Cumbria and Stagecoach North East depots have a 'guaranteed' connection on the 685 on all day... 
I have no experience whether this particular one works. Anyone tried this connection?

(21 Mar 2023, 10:43 pm)logidoodah wrote [ -> ]Stagecoach Cumbria and Stagecoach North East depots have a 'guaranteed' connection on the 685 on all day... 
I have no experience whether this particular one works. Anyone tried this connection?

By 'guaranteed connections' we're referring to advertised connections in a timetable where require a change of bus (or method of transport), the vast majority of Stagecoach 685's are actually 'through connections' but are often referred to as 'guaranteed connection' whereby it's the same bus continuing through to reach a terminus (the 685 is split reg with splits at Hexham Bus Station and Brampton but its the same bus all the way through from Newcastle to Carlisle). *this practice is to get round having to abide to EU driving regulations which is required on routes which exceed 50km.

Only time you are required to change buses on the 685 is on Sundays when the NE run the Newcastle to Hexham portion whilst Cumbria does Hexham to Carlisle (also applies to the first departure from Carlisle on Mon-Sat mornings)

In all honestly, things like this are just the start.

BRG ending, £2 fare ending, ENCTS agreements likely now reflecting actual demand?

I can see another load of bus cuts across the region (and the country).

Authorities will jump in last minute with these odd and pointless connecting services to try and fill the gaps. I wouldn't be surprised if this is a short term fix with a longer term view being planned to start from end of June.

A long time ago I believe there were dedicated timetables advertising connections between the X35 from Hartlepool and the X9 into Newcastle at Peterlee Bus Station. Not sure how many people actually used that connection though.

(22 Mar 2023, 7:39 am)RobinHood wrote [ -> ]In all honestly, things like this are just the start.

BRG ending, £2 fare ending, ENCTS agreements likely now reflecting actual demand?

I can see another load of bus cuts across the region (and the country).

Authorities will jump in last minute with these odd and pointless connecting services to try and fill the gaps. I wouldn't be surprised if this is a short term fix with a longer term view being planned to start from end of June.

I thought the £2 flat fare got extended for 3 months until end of June same as the bail out payments to bus companies?, unless the pointless government has done a u turn since the budget with several other uturns

Ashame about politicians didn’t do a uturn when there gived themselves a healthy pay rise for doing a good job for there country [emoji848]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

(22 Mar 2023, 8:20 am)wibblejunior wrote [ -> ]A long time ago I believe there were dedicated timetables advertising connections between the X35 from Hartlepool and the X9 into Newcastle at Peterlee Bus Station. Not sure how many people actually used that connection though.

I remember going down to Hartlepool for the day, planning to use that connection on the way back.  However, I managed to finish early, so changed my plans, stayed on the X35 to Park Lane and swapped onto a service through the Tyne Tunnel before doing an SPD on the 80 from North Shields to Wallsend!  Think the Peterlee connection would have worked, though.

(23 Mar 2023, 9:24 am)Ianthegoon wrote [ -> ]I remember going down to Hartlepool for the day, planning to use that connection on the way back.  However, I managed to finish early, so changed my plans, stayed on the X35 to Park Lane and swapped onto a service through the Tyne Tunnel before doing an SPD on the 80 from North Shields to Wallsend!  Think the Peterlee connection would have worked, though.

Glutton for punishment! Even the most hardened gricer would struggle with that!

(23 Mar 2023, 10:07 am)Andreos1 wrote [ -> ]Glutton for punishment! Even the most hardened gricer would struggle with that!

Yeah, I found that out the hard way!  I wasn't at all familiar with the North Tyneside network at the time, but I'd wanted to go through the Tyne Tunnel, ended up at North Shields looking for a route towards Newcastle that wasn't the standard Coast Road stuff, saw this thing called an 80 that went to Wallsend, so I hopped on it.  I did make it through to Wallsend, arriving some time later .....

(23 Mar 2023, 10:23 am)Ianthegoon wrote [ -> ]Yeah, I found that out the hard way!  I wasn't at all familiar with the North Tyneside network at the time, but I'd wanted to go through the Tyne Tunnel, ended up at North Shields looking for a route towards Newcastle that wasn't the standard Coast Road stuff, saw this thing called an 80 that went to Wallsend, so I hopped on it.  I did make it through to Wallsend, arriving some time later .....

I did that one day, missed the 53 from North Shields to my mothers in Forest Hall, the 42 pulled in , the weather that day wasnt the best, so i thought 'screw it', safe to say that was a mistake

(22 Mar 2023, 8:20 am)wibblejunior wrote [ -> ]A long time ago I believe there were dedicated timetables advertising connections between the X35 from Hartlepool and the X9 into Newcastle at Peterlee Bus Station. Not sure how many people actually used that connection though.

You're certainly correct. This one's from May 2009

Am I correct in thinking this effectively replaced the X11 which was direct?