North East Buses

cuts to arriva services in North tynside have made the Chronicle! Apparently there is a petition to stop the cuts. Maybe if people jest used the buses rather then file out a form on their computer they services wouldn't be getting shelved???

(01 Jun 2023, 7:44 am)Rob44 wrote [ -> ]cuts to arriva services in North tynside have made the Chronicle! Apparently there is a petition to stop the cuts. Maybe if people jest used the buses rather then file out a form on their computer they services wouldn't be getting shelved???

Link below:

https://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/nor...s-27031150






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(31 May 2023, 7:06 pm)Storx wrote [ -> ]Won't the 28/28A/29 or whatever that's left of them still serve them? Haven't heard much about them though.

The full changes in the Middlesbrough area for Stockton depot were posted by a councillor on Twitter late last night and are:

5: No service to Skinningrove at all, Liverton Mines retain hourly service Monday to Saturday but lose their Sunday service due to low usage (and to assist with reliability on Sundays). Not mentioned in the document but from my sources within Arriva, the 2320 journey from Middlesbrough to North Skelton on a Monday to Saturday will be revised to terminate at Guisborough while the Sunday trip at 2320, which presently terminates at Guisborough, will be withdrawn entirely
5a: Reduced to hourly, alongside the 5 and X93 will offer a bus every 15 minutes between Middlesbrough and Guisborough. Will follow the same route as the 5 within Guisborough (via Stokesley Road and Westgate to the Market Place) no longer serving Hutton Lane, before extending to Lingdale in place of the 28.
17/X17: Section between Ingleby Barwick Sober Hall and Kingsmead will be withdrawn, service 17 will instead operated half hourly between Middlesbrough and Ingleby Barwick, following the present loop within Ingleby but to a half hourly frequency rather than hourly. X17 withdrawn with these journeys now operating as 17s instead. Monday to Saturday evening journeys curtailed around 2100 and Sunday evenings will curtailed around 1930 (which is the time of the last trip on a Sunday presently anyway)
28: Cut to terminate at Guisborough Market Place, with Lingdale instead served by the 5a. All journeys will now serve Hunters Hill rather than just those at peak times.
28a: Journeys will not longer serve Nunthorpe Station, Swans Corner or Nunthorpe Village, instead operating via Marton Moor Corner, Stokesley Road and the A172 (the long-standing route of the Stokesley service prior to it become the 28a).
29: Revised to operate between Middlesbrough and Easterside only, no longer serving Marton or Cypress Road. Buses will operate a one-way loop of Easterside from James Cook Hospital via Marton Road, Marton Crossroads, Ladgate Lane (serving the stop at Marton Manor The Derby) and Broadwell Avenue. Weekday frequency remains at half hourly but Saturdays will operate hourly. Evening and Sunday journeys are withdrawn due to unsustainable demand.

The X22 change has previously been mentioned (although no details yet regarding what is happening to the evening X21 journeys between Peterlee and Sedgefield), as have the 62 and X2/X3. Leaving just the changes to Stockton's 7 to be revealed.

(01 Jun 2023, 8:32 am)Kuyoyo wrote [ -> ]The full changes in the Middlesbrough area for Stockton depot were posted by a councillor on Twitter late last night and are:

5: No service to Skinningrove at all, Liverton Mines retain hourly service Monday to Saturday but lose their Sunday service due to low usage (and to assist with reliability on Sundays). Not mentioned in the document but from my sources within Arriva, the 2320 journey from Middlesbrough to North Skelton on a Monday to Saturday will be revised to terminate at Guisborough while the Sunday trip at 2320, which presently terminates at Guisborough, will be withdrawn entirely
5a: Reduced to hourly, alongside the 5 and X93 will offer a bus every 15 minutes between Middlesbrough and Guisborough. Will follow the same route as the 5 within Guisborough (via Stokesley Road and Westgate to the Market Place) no longer serving Hutton Lane, before extending to Lingdale in place of the 28.
17/X17: Section between Ingleby Barwick Sober Hall and Kingsmead will be withdrawn, service 17 will instead operated half hourly between Middlesbrough and Ingleby Barwick, following the present loop within Ingleby but to a half hourly frequency rather than hourly. X17 withdrawn with these journeys now operating as 17s instead. Monday to Saturday evening journeys curtailed around 2100 and Sunday evenings will curtailed around 1930 (which is the time of the last trip on a Sunday presently anyway)
28: Cut to terminate at Guisborough Market Place, with Lingdale instead served by the 5a. All journeys will now serve Hunters Hill rather than just those at peak times.
28a: Journeys will not longer serve Nunthorpe Station, Swans Corner or Nunthorpe Village, instead operating via Marton Moor Corner, Stokesley Road and the A172 (the long-standing route of the Stokesley service prior to it become the 28a).
29: Revised to operate between Middlesbrough and Easterside only, no longer serving Marton or Cypress Road. Buses will operate a one-way loop of Easterside from James Cook Hospital via Marton Road, Marton Crossroads, Ladgate Lane (serving the stop at Marton Manor The Derby) and Broadwell Avenue. Weekday frequency remains at half hourly but Saturdays will operate hourly. Evening and Sunday journeys are withdrawn due to unsustainable demand.

The X22 change has previously been mentioned (although no details yet regarding what is happening to the evening X21 journeys between Peterlee and Sedgefield), as have the 62 and X2/X3. Leaving just the changes to Stockton's 7 to be revealed.

Those changes don't sound too bad in the face of it tbh especially in the Stockton area other than the 5 reduction. Not too surprised at the villages struggling but they have Teesflex I suppose (opinions on that for another thread).

Only thing that's not clear, is there new X93 shorts being done between Guisborough and Middlesbrough to make the 15 minute service as it's only every hour so would be 15 / 30 / 15 / 15?

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(01 Jun 2023, 7:44 am)Rob44 wrote [ -> ]cuts to arriva services in North tynside have made the Chronicle!  Apparently there is a petition to stop the cuts.  Maybe if people jest used the buses rather then file out a form on their computer they services wouldn't be getting shelved???

It's very political that, as far as I'm aware it's an operational issue as much as being unsustainable. That's just Labour bashing at bus companies and the Conservatives as per usual and giving themselves credit for god knows what they actually done in 'saving' bus routes.

The only changes to Stockton’s 7 are evening & Sunday buses will run as service 7 not serving Kingsmead (unsurprisingly given the withdrawal of the 17) and evenings withdrawn after 9pm.


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(01 Jun 2023, 8:40 am)Storx wrote [ -> ]Those changes don't sound too bad in the face of it tbh especially in the Stockton area other than the 5 reduction. Not too surprised at the villages struggling but they have Teesflex I suppose (opinions on that for another thread).

Only thing that's not clear, is there new X93 shorts being done between Guisborough and Middlesbrough to make the 15 minute service as it's only every hour so would be 15 / 30 / 15 / 15?

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It's very political that, as far as I'm aware it's an operational issue as much as being unsustainable. That's just Labour bashing at bus companies and the Conservatives as per usual and giving themselves credit for god knows what they actually done in 'saving' bus routes.

No you’ll have 2 5’s, a 5a and an X93 making up the 15 minute frequency from Middlesbrough - doesn’t help others on the route where the X93 doesn’t stop though


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(01 Jun 2023, 8:43 am)tyresmoke wrote [ -> ]The only changes to Stockton’s 7 are evening & Sunday buses will run as service 7 not serving Kingsmead (unsurprisingly given the withdrawal of the 17) and evenings withdrawn after 9pm.


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No you’ll have 2 5’s, a 5a and an X93 making up the 15 minute frequency from Middlesbrough - doesn’t help others on the route where the X93 doesn’t stop though


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Ah makes sense now, misread it as the 5 running every hour throughout, not just the extension. Seems a bit awkward having a 15/15/30 service for the places where the X93 doesn't stop like you said mind.

I can imagine a few people in Skinningrove not being happy, and I guess the roadworks in Loftus have caused lots of delays for months which hasn't helped.

The ENCTS payment reductions and the scheme in general seems to be shrouded in mystery to me at least.

It's a subject for another thread really, but maybe someone in the industry who is more knowledgeable could talk about it more. How much do the bus companies get paid? Why are they only now talking about reducing these payments - surely councils will always have tried to pay as little as possible if they have a choice? How can an operator ever be properly reimbursed when no-one knows if the passenger is going to the next stop, or going the full route? Why has the 30p fare pre-9.30am around Teesside never changed or been scrapped all these years? Why do some smaller operators on long distance services ask their ENCTS pass holders to tap their card again, and other larger operators not? Are pass holders always a benefit to the bus companies or not?

Lots of questions, like I say better perhaps on a thread of its own, but seems to me the whole system is not straightforward or transparent.

I don’t think this is what Arriva are making it seem, I’d be surprised if their reimbursement rate is being cut - I think what is actually happening is the level of passenger journeys is being right sized after being held at 2019 levels for the last few years.

Clearly they’re carrying less concessionary travellers than pre-Covid and I would guess they’re now going to be paid for that level - this necessitates a cut back in the network to keep it performing at an acceptable level.


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(01 Jun 2023, 9:32 am)tvd wrote [ -> ]The ENCTS payment reductions and the scheme in general seems to be shrouded in mystery to me at least.

It's a subject for another thread really, but maybe someone in the industry who is more knowledgeable could talk about it more.  How much do the bus companies get paid?  Why are they only now talking about reducing these payments - surely councils will always have tried to pay as little as possible if they have a choice?  How can an operator ever be properly reimbursed when no-one knows if the passenger is going to the next stop, or going the full route?  Why has the 30p fare pre-9.30am around Teesside never changed or been scrapped all these years?  Why do some smaller operators on long distance services ask their ENCTS pass holders to tap their card again, and other larger operators not?    Are pass holders always a benefit to the bus companies or not?

Lots of questions, like I say better perhaps on a thread of its own, but seems to me the whole system is not straightforward or transparent.

I'd be surprised if that isn't considered fraud. I think even for split registrations, it's questionable behaviour.

(01 Jun 2023, 9:41 am)tyresmoke wrote [ -> ]I don’t think this is what Arriva are making it seem, I’d be surprised if their reimbursement rate is being cut - I think what is actually happening is the level of passenger journeys is being right sized after being held at 2019 levels for the last few years.

Clearly they’re carrying less concessionary travellers than pre-Covid and I would guess they’re now going to be paid for that level - this necessitates a cut back in the network to keep it performing at an acceptable level.


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The statement says exactly that. Reductions in ENCTS up to 28% to 'right size' but mileage operated at 94% currently compared to presumably before COVID.

I suspect that is the point Arriva are trying to make, that the funding doesn't match the network expectation.

Re the cancellation of the X3A in East Cleveland and the 5 omitting Skinningrove. Maybe putting 2 and 2 together and making 5, but could the non- Liverton Mines 5 bus be diverted to ASDA and the retail park? And idea when the timetables are out?

(01 Jun 2023, 12:45 pm)Michael Euston wrote [ -> ]Re the cancellation of the X3A in East Cleveland and the 5 omitting Skinningrove. Maybe putting 2 and 2 together and making 5, but could the non- Liverton Mines 5 bus be diverted to ASDA and the retail park? And idea when the timetables are out?

Both the staff & public information make no mention of the long 5s going via Asda. So I take that to mean there is nothing into Asda, which seems an odd decision.


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Some of the changes have started appearing in the journey planning section of the Arriva app/website. Had a quick play around with some of the bits in Durham and Darlington and these were some observations not previously mentioned (assuming info is correct, current times still show in some instances):

3/3A - becomes Town Centre to Skerne Park only as service 3, except for extensions to/from Hummersknot Academy on school days at start/finish times.

19 - West Park no longer served, instead running in a one way loop of Faverdale via West Auckland Road then turning right at the roundabout onto Rotary Way then as current route.

X75/X76 - X76 withdrawn, X75 running hourly with a few extras at peak times.

Beyond changes we already know, like 1 being diverted via Tindle Crescent, it's mostly changes to times.

(25 May 2023, 1:16 pm)Jimmi wrote [ -> ]The way I've worked it out, it would only be roughly a 4 hour round trip to do Stockton - Peterlee: Peterlee - Sedgefield - Peterlee: Peterlee - Stockton.

* Times for working out are just for example purposes using the current timetable with an estimated time from Moorcock to Peterlee Bus Station due to removal of the service from Acre Rigg in Peterlee

One thing that’s puzzling me is what’s the 22B about? I take it the X22, will now go direct via Burnhope Way. So why aren’t all 22 journeys going via Acre Rigg - it seems unnecessary confusion having some 22 journeys doing ‘the quick route’ and others going ‘the long way’. It’ll also probably mean inconsistent departures and arrivals in Peterlee, it sort of annoys me when a half hourly service like that will be departing at gaps of 35 vs 25 minutes. I can only assume timetable is tight so the Sunderland journeys need the extra time. 

it would make more sense: 
Half hourly X22 direct via Burnhope Road (as does the soon to be-half hourly X6) 
Half hourly 22 via Acre Rigg/Lancaster Hill (partly also served by half hourly 201) 
Half hourly 24 via Pennine Drive & Oakerside. 


I will also say there needs to be a new bus stop opposite The Moorcock on Acre Rigg Road for people to alight at on journeys heading towards Peterlee Bus Station.

(31 May 2023, 8:19 pm)Humbletravel wrote [ -> ]For Redcar...

The 62 will be run from Middlesbrough and terminate at Redcar Town Centre. Evening journeys will be curtailed at 1800 and there will be complete withdrawal of the Sunday service.

X3A withdrawn completely. Partially replaced by X2 which follows the route of the X3A from Middlesbrough to Marske then extends to New Marske.

Sunday service 3 will be withdrawn.

X3 will serve Redcar East and Borough Road to replace the 62. Ings Farm estate (Warwick and Castle road) will have no service at all.

How will this work though. 
When you look on vosa 62 will still serve marske 
81 still go to marske estate 
X2 Middlesbrough to new marske

(01 Jun 2023, 3:31 pm)Ryland wrote [ -> ]How will this work though. 
When you look on vosa 62 will still serve marske 
81 still go to marske estate 
X2 Middlesbrough to new marske

Sometimes the registrations don’t get updated whether that’s leaving the old details in the registration or some failure somewhere in the system (I assume they’re all done EBSR at Arriva?) then don’t take it as gospel.
The 29 still shows Nunthorpe but no journeys will run there…

So the 62 will be Middlesbrough to Redcar via its current route. The X2 will run as per the current X3A to Marske then spin and go back to New Marske. The X3 will divert via Redcar East station & Borough Rd.
No change to route on the 81 just timetable


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(01 Jun 2023, 3:38 pm)tyresmoke wrote [ -> ]Sometimes the registrations don’t get updated whether that’s leaving the old details in the registration or some failure somewhere in the system (I assume they’re all done EBSR at Arriva?) then don’t take it as gospel.
The 29 still shows Nunthorpe but no journeys will run there…

So the 62 will be Middlesbrough to Redcar via its current route. The X2 will run as per the current X3A to Marske then spin and go back to New Marske. The X3 will divert via Redcar East station & Borough Rd.
No change to route on the 81 just timetable


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Killed the X3/X3a imo.
Anything but an express, knocked the headway it had with the X4, allocations all over the place and for branding officionados - never bothered letting punters know about the extension beyond Asda...

(01 Jun 2023, 3:31 pm)Ryland wrote [ -> ]How will this work though. 
When you look on vosa 62 will still serve marske 
81 still go to marske estate 
X2 Middlesbrough to new marske

There's always the possibility of something similar to the 64/64A where some of the first and last journeys still do the full route but the bulk only do the shorts.

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I'm not as familar with Teeside/N Yorks.

Will there a be a PVR decrease?
Will dead mileage runs be reduced?