(18 Jul 2013, 6:45 pm)BJ10VUS wrote [ -> ]I don't mind if the Metro is off for a reason, because at the end of the day, it probably can't be helped. It's just the way they deal with it (and the fact it's now happening nearly EVERY day!)
Yeah, this is beginning to be a real issue. As you say, some of the problems can't be helped. But to give simplified reasons like
Oh, the Metro's aren't running because the weather's too hot makes it look like they're providing excuses rather than answers. There's no denying that its been hot over the past week or so, but, there have been times where the weather has been just as hot (Link:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-23355833) so it would be interesting to draw parallels between how the Metro performed then against now. It just looks like the weather has provided a convenient excuse to cover a whole host of problems.
Being told "Metro's off, you know?" by staff at the station doesn't really help. They should also learn which buses actually serve stations during the day and at other times - for example, when it was off in Sunderland a few days ago, according to the NEXUS website, the 26A could be used as a replacement - erm... isn't that just an evening service on weekdays?
Also, staff should be saying tickets can only be used on, for example, the 27 between Heworth and Newcastle. Passengers boarding the X9 today were turned away at Heworth, with the driver being described as "just being awkward" - at the end of the day, tickets aren't being accepted on other services and staff should tell people who probably don't know the buses as well this information.
Obviously, it's going to be a struggle to provide Metro Replacement Buses at such short notice. But, since disruption is now becoming such a regular occurrence, you'd think that there would be some emergency contingency agreement that would come into immediate effect. This information could be permanently displayed at all Metro stations in order to familiarise passengers with details of alternative transport provision (something along the lines of 'In the unfortunate event that we are not able to provide your Metro service; then please use the following services if Metro Replacement Buses are unavailable...) - in addition to this information being made available through Nexus' website and social media. At the appropriate juncture, the information could immediately relayed to relevant bus companies, and passengers, although inconvenienced, would have some idea of what service to catch and whether their tickets would be valid.
It's almost too simple.
I think information really is really badly communicated to the bus companies. The bus drivers shouldn't be blamed, because at the end of the day, it's not their fault that Metro passengers can't use the trains. Personally though, I think that tickets should be able to be used on more bus services. For example, five 27s ending up at Gateshead with not even standing room only. I really do feel sorry for the drivers - it's challenging enough keeping that route to time as it is!
I think it's a shame the people at Metro don't seem to have a clue about even the most frequent bus services running nearby Metro stations, because (for example Newcastle-Heworth/Sunderland) there are (usually) double deckers on the X9/X10 and also services such as the X3 and X36 operating the same route - it could help bus companies by splitting the loads of passengers and clear the pathways. Then again, I don't know how that would affect services and the 'financials'?
I hope the operators are charging Metro proper rates for having to deal with their daily fiascos. It's no wonder the 27 is unreliable when it's having to compensate for the Metro on a daily basis.
(18 Jul 2013, 10:02 pm)aureolin wrote [ -> ]I hope the operators are charging Metro proper rates for having to deal with their daily fiascos. It's no wonder the 27 is unreliable when it's having to compensate for the Metro on a daily basis.
The bus companies are probably going to end up raking in millions with the state of Metro's current reliability - especially GNE and Arriva!
But, getting back to the serious point - I'm really starting to wonder what the refurbishment of the trains actually involves? It was only when the so-called 'new' trains returned that we saw a drop in service reliability!
Whilst there are the issues with track, electricity supply problems, failed trains and the heat, it wasn't that long ago that the metro was 'off' on a regular basis due to cable thefts etc.
The comment about the new trains is interesting - are the failed trains the ones that have been refurbished or are they the trains still to be worked on?
Is it coincidence that this has all happened since the part privatisation of the system?
Either way, to have so many problems in such a short space of time, is a disaster. It also goes to show how restricted and fragmented our public transport network is, however much it is lauded.
Would Glasgow or London come to a standstill due to a failed train or problems with electricity supply? It probably wouldn't, due to the various alternatives passengers have in those cities - something we don't have.
I'm trying (honestly) to not get political about this - but by having the limited bus service which runs alongside the metro, Nexus are so reliant on having to get the 900 up and running.
Would the issues faced by passengers or the stories we have heard about alternative sources of transport be as bad if we had QCS?
In London, if a section of the Picaddilly line goes down, whilst there being the inevitable disruption and upset, an alternative is always available in a very short space of time.
Bus drivers are made aware more or less straight away, with underground bosses not needing to follow a procedure which involves ringing around the various operators, trying to communicate with managers, who then need to relay to it to the depots, who then need to relay it to the drivers - whilst at the same time trying to arrange a 900 to cover the affected area.
Another day, yet another Metro problem.
Tyne and Wear Metro wroteThere are major delays to trains running between Monument and South Shields and South Hylton due to a failed train. Please leave extra time for your journey.
Tyne and Wear Metro wroteThere are no trains running between Monument and Heworth in both directions until further notice. This is due to a failed train. Bus replacement 900 is running between Monument and Heworth. Go North East are accepting Metro tickets in the affected area. Bus services 57,58,27 operate between Monument and Heworth. We will update you as soon as we have more information.
I wonder what the cause of failed train was this time? - Didn't have its Weetabix?
Andreos1 wroteIs it coincidence that this has all happened since the part privatisation of the system?
I wonder about this too. However, the recent problems have caused me to view this question from a slightly different angle. I was under the impression that Deutsche Bahn are quite well respected within the transport industry for precision and reliability. IIRC, this was the line peddled when the Metro became part-privatised. So, have these problems occurred because of Deutsche Bahn through poor maintenance etc? Or, was the Metro pretty knackered to begin and did Nexus simply palm it off onto DB to avoid the flack (and cost) of persistent system failure (which hasn't really worked)? - Now, I wonder whether DB really knew what they were getting themselves into.
I personally think, if it is the same trains that are breaking down, they should take them out of service for a period of time and get them fixed properly. I wouldn't mind a reduced service - I'm sure people would prefer a train every 20 minutes (every 10 minutes between South Gosforth and Pelaw) instead of a one every 12 or so minutes (every 6 minutes between South Gosforth and Pelaw) that will get stuck in a tunnel or break down.
It's still hot, but nowhere near as hot as last week, and I'm certain that it has something to do with the so-called 'refurbished' trains, as they're the ones that are breaking down the majority of the time.
I think they should halt the refurbishment programme for the trains and just buy the new trains ASAP. I know it's easier said than done, but it would create jobs and probably persuade people to use the Metro system, rather than deter them.
(22 Jul 2013, 10:31 am)BJ10VUS wrote [ -> ]I think they should halt the refurbishment programme for the trains and just buy the new trains ASAP. I know it's easier said than done, but it would create jobs and probably persuade people to use the Metro system, rather than deter them.
Ok then, are you prepared to pay a hugely increased fare to pay for such trains. The reason they are refurbishing the old and not buying new is that the bulk of the £385million Government grant is mainly for the infrastructure. Hence why the stock is being refurbished not replaced.
Personally, my hope is that the stock will be replaced once Network Rail and the DfT agree to the electrication of the Durham Coast Line, which would then mean the wires between Pelaw and Sunderland world have to be increased to 25kv AC from the current 1500v DC. Replacing the current trains with Metro-style EMU instead of purpose built stock as now.
There's a refurbished Metrocar broken down between Illford Road and South Gosforth. It's stuck in the sidings being worked on.
(22 Jul 2013, 10:57 am)Kuyoyo wrote [ -> ] (22 Jul 2013, 10:31 am)BJ10VUS wrote [ -> ]I think they should halt the refurbishment programme for the trains and just buy the new trains ASAP. I know it's easier said than done, but it would create jobs and probably persuade people to use the Metro system, rather than deter them.
Ok then, are you prepared to pay a hugely increased fare to pay for such trains. The reason they are refurbishing the old and not buying new is that the bulk of the £385million Government grant is mainly for the infrastructure. Hence why the stock is being refurbished not replaced.
Personally, my hope is that the stock will be replaced once Network Rail and the DfT agree to the electrication of the Durham Coast Line, which would then mean the wires between Pelaw and Sunderland world have to be increased to 25kv AC from the current 1500v DC. Replacing the current trains with Metro-style EMU instead of purpose built stock as now.
Well I'm not saying buy them today! I'm just saying, buy them sooner rather than have 20 years of more disruption. Why should we pay increased fares for refurbishing trains that are breaking down? I'd rather pay an increased fare for trains that run well.
To members of the general public, wouldn't these refurbished trains be seen as 'new' anyway? I imagine to most they wouldn't know the difference between refurbished and new.
I highly doubt that members of the public would see a correlation between these Metrocars failing and them being refurbished or not - they'll just think, "It's only another 12 minutes until the next one" (providing there's not mass disruption as per usual events).
That said, I would prefer (if it increased reliability) that new Metrocars were purchased.
(22 Jul 2013, 10:57 am)Kuyoyo wrote [ -> ] (22 Jul 2013, 10:31 am)BJ10VUS wrote [ -> ]I think they should halt the refurbishment programme for the trains and just buy the new trains ASAP. I know it's easier said than done, but it would create jobs and probably persuade people to use the Metro system, rather than deter them.
Ok then, are you prepared to pay a hugely increased fare to pay for such trains. The reason they are refurbishing the old and not buying new is that the bulk of the £385million Government grant is mainly for the infrastructure. Hence why the stock is being refurbished not replaced.
Personally, my hope is that the stock will be replaced once Network Rail and the DfT agree to the electrication of the Durham Coast Line, which would then mean the wires between Pelaw and Sunderland world have to be increased to 25kv AC from the current 1500v DC. Replacing the current trains with Metro-style EMU instead of purpose built stock as now.
The stock would still need to be 'purpose-built', so to speak, due to diameter of the tunnels running through Gateshead and Newcastle and also the loading gauges at Metro stations. I asked a similar question in the past and that's the response I received from Nexus (although a bit more detailed). Unless you're suggesting that if the Durham Coast Line were electrified, the Metro should be curtailed back to Pelaw on that section of line?
aureolin wroteThere's a refurbished Metrocar broken down between Illford Road and South Gosforth. It's stuck in the sidings being worked on.
Oh dear.
4058 / 4090 is the broken down Metrocar pair I mentioned earlier.
There are another two sets in the depot at Gosforth. One being 4018. Couldn't see the back car, nor could I get the number of the second set when passing. Both are yet to be refurbished sets.
(22 Jul 2013, 10:57 am)Kuyoyo wrote [ -> ]Ok then, are you prepared to pay a hugely increased fare to pay for such trains. The reason they are refurbishing the old and not buying new is that the bulk of the £385million Government grant is mainly for the infrastructure. Hence why the stock is being refurbished not replaced.
People have paid increased fares year on year since the system opened. I've used it more the past month than I have in the past 10 years, and the ticket price seemed to go up every time I bought one. It's no wonder my expenses got queried. This is not to mention the various levies depending on where in Tyne and Wear you happen to live. It's only in the last few years when everyone's budget is already tight that the ITA wanted to start investing. Realistically it should have happened between 1997-2006, when the Labour government were more than happy to piss money up the wall on everything and anything. Instead we're doing everything on a big bang approach.
(22 Jul 2013, 3:11 pm)aureolin wrote [ -> ]Realistically it should have happened between 1997-2006, when the Labour government were more than happy to piss money up the wall on everything and anything. Instead we're doing everything on a big bang approach.
Yeah, they were happy enough to give the go-ahead for the Sunderland Extension after nearly 20 years of continuous prodding from the Wearside transport lobby. The 'Towards 2016' pamphlet that was produced around that time strongly hinted towards the development of a new fleet of Metro cars looking very similar to the Manchester Metrolink if memory serves (I used to have a copy of the booklet, I've seen it listed in the 'Bygone' section but I've haven't taken the opportunity to look at it yet!). That time window would have probably provided the optimum opportunity for some investment. I'm not talking about the replacement of the whole fleet, but one or two new Metro cars to go along with the new extension probably wouldn't have been too much of an ask now, would it?
Lol, Towards 2016. We're nearly there now. I wonder how much of what's in there has been achieved. I think we probably have more chance of seeing Hoverboards in 2015.
(22 Jul 2013, 5:58 pm)AdamY wrote [ -> ] (22 Jul 2013, 3:11 pm)aureolin wrote [ -> ]Realistically it should have happened between 1997-2006, when the Labour government were more than happy to piss money up the wall on everything and anything. Instead we're doing everything on a big bang approach.
Yeah, they were happy enough to give the go-ahead for the Sunderland Extension after nearly 20 years of continuous prodding from the Wearside transport lobby. The 'Towards 2016' pamphlet that was produced around that time strongly hinted towards the development of a new fleet of Metro cars looking very similar to the Manchester Metrolink if memory serves (I used to have a copy of the booklet, I've seen it listed in the 'Bygone' section but I've haven't taken the opportunity to look at it yet!). That time window would have probably provided the optimum opportunity for some investment. I'm not talking about the replacement of the whole fleet, but one or two new Metro cars to go along with the new extension probably wouldn't have been too much of an ask now, would it?
Lol, Towards 2016. We're nearly there now. I wonder how much of what's in there has been achieved. I think we probably have more chance of seeing Hoverboards in 2015.
There was a link for the Nexus Towards 2016 document in the
Bygone Era, but the link appears to be broken now. Maybe one of the admins can fix it?
Just found this short article from 2001 regarding the cost of building the Sunderland Extension from a member of the Light Railway Transit Association named Iain Frew. It forms part of a larger set of updates on the Tyne and Wear Metro. The full version is available here:
http://www.lrta.org/tynewear.html
Update June 2000
With the confirmation of Government funding in January, Nexus commenced work on the Metro extension from Pelaw to Sunderland (over active Railtrack tracks) and onwards through the suburbs of the new city over the track bed of the abandoned Durham branch to South Hylton. There is a very tight timescale since civil engineering work is to be completed during the summer of 2001 and public services are expected to commence on 13 January 2002.
The scheme falls naturally into two parts - Pelaw to Sunderland, and Sunderland to South Hylton. Railtrack will be responsible for the upgrading of the track on the first segment and this will be used by a mixture of heavy and lighter rail vehicles.The TWPS warning system will be fitted along this first section. Nexus will have six paths per hour each way for metro trains. Railtrack will have three paths per hour for longer distance dmu worked heavy rail trains. Several freight services will operate over the section each day. The track connection from the existing metro services at Pelaw will be by means of a flying junction from the South Shields tracks ensuring that there is no conflict with the anticipated heavy freight traffic expected from the soon to be reopened Leamside route. Metro trains will call at the existing stations, Brockley Whins, East Boldon, and Seaburn, all of which will be upgraded and will then resemble the stops on earlier metro routes. Additional stops will be provided at Fellgate (an extensive housing area which has been crying out for a station for literally decades), Stadium of Light (close to the new Sunderland FC ground - the architecture here will reflect the style of the new stadium) - and St Peter's (adjacent to the former Monkwearmouth stop which is now a museum).
Sunderland station is a special case. At present the underground facility is dark and spooky. There are two island platforms, the western of the pair being out of use and unlit. The station will be rebuilt with a single much wider island platform, and the lighting will be greatly improved. Lifts and possibly escalators will take passengers to a greatly improved concourse and the surface building will be replaced by a much more stylish structure.
In mid June the most obvious signs of activity were the reconstruction of a major overbridge at Seaburn to give clearance for the overhead wires, and the erection of scaffolding within Sunderland station allowing repair work to the roof girders to be undertaken.
On the second section there was great activity in June. The right of way had not been built over to any significant degree but a footpath/cyclepath ran along parts near the University, material had been dumped over the trackbed at various locations to raise the level, and dense vegetation occupied the deep cutting beyond Pallion. One underbridge had been filled in but the structure of the bridge remained intact. Virtually the entire route had been cleared, and the dumped materials removed by June 2000. A description of what is now to be done along the second segment follows.
The route leaves the Railtrack tracks just south of Sunderland station and the first stop is to be atPark Lane, immediately underneath the city's bus station, thus ensuring excellent coordination of services. Work has begun on the foundations of this station. The route enters a shallow cutting past the University where there will be a key stop. A graceful footbridge will cross the line at this point taking people to the University, and the cyclepath is to be reconstructed alongside the Nexus tracks rather as has happened with Midland Metro. A considerable amount of earth moving has been completed here but work has not yet commenced on the station itself. Millfield will be in a densely populated inner suburb and handy connections will be possible with the bus services. The station will be in a deep cutting which has been cleared of dumped earth, and vegetation. The track bed then rises on to an embankment coming quite close to the Wear and Pallion station will be high up above a newish industrial area (in which the extension offices are located) though some housing is also nearby. A new road has eroded the embankment to some extent so a retaining wall is being built. Various services are being moved including a major gas main. Beyond Pallion the line enters a deep rock cutting - almost a canyon in places - which had been full of trees and shrubs. These have all been cleared and the track bed seems to be in pretty good condition. Eventually the route reaches South Hylton, where a single platform terminus will suffice. The community is not large but this will be a key park and ride facility for many workers seeking an alternative way to reach the heart of Sunderland without using the jam packed roads.
What will it cost? The total cost will be just £98m of which Railtrack will provide £40.4m. The Government grant is £35m, Nexus is spending £4m, and the remainder comes from the EU. The cost has been kept low because no additional rolling stock is required. Thanks (?) to the policies of an earlier Government the excellent bus: Metro integration of early years was broken up and traffic on the Metro fell. This has produced a surplus of rolling stock which was taken up partly by the Airport extension. When the South Hylton route is open, 90% of the fleet will require to be in service every day. The rolling stock is at present receiving a mid life refurbishment which will give it a further 10-15 years useful life.
The car park at Heworth is one of metro's success stories and is shortly to be enlarged again to meet growing use. Traffic here is expected to rise further once the metro runs to Sunderland. In the northern suburbs the car parks see poorer use. At Kingston Park the car park is busy only on Saturdays or during school holidays but some regular travellers prefer the Supermarket car park on the other side of the tracks and do shopping on their way home from work. Callerton Parkway park has modest use on weekdays but is again busy on Saturdays and during school holidays. An explanation for this varying use is that parents take their children to school, and are then far from a station so drive into work in the city centre. When the school run is not needed they head for the metro car park instead.
Iain D.O. Frew
24 June 2000.
I think it's interesting that South Hylton was cited as a possible Park and Ride facility. Obviously, it never happened. But I wonder how that would have panned out?
(22 Jul 2013, 6:48 pm)AdamY wrote [ -> ]I think it's interesting that South Hylton was cited as a possible Park and Ride facility. Obviously, it never happened. But I wonder how that would have panned out?
I don't know where it could have went? The just before the station is South Hylton Pasture, which I'm sure is a nature reserve of some sort. Plus there's only one narrow road in and out - not really suitable for traffic.
Looking at a satellite image, the only space would be behind The Hylton pub. Looks like there is a small car park already, but extending that would rule out extending the track towards the Victoria Viaduct.
I'm i dreaming or has their not being a fault on the metro so far today..Can it go rest of the day without any faults?
post 5pm (lets see how long it lasts from this post)
(24 Jul 2013, 4:00 pm)Michael wrote [ -> ]I'm i dreaming or has their not being a fault on the metro so far today..Can it go rest of the day without any faults?
post 5pm (lets see how long it lasts from this post)
You've jinxed it now.
![[Image: WhV1EQo.png]](http://i.imgur.com/WhV1EQo.png)
A whole 26 minutes after Michael's post! Oh dear...
Anyone care to explain the 'extreme weather' part though? Do floods etc down south affect the Metro system here?
lmao i was just about to post about that!!
I'm sorry but this is ridiculous, extreme weather?.... Abit of breeze and its clammy...
Dear me... Thats ridiculous, extreme weather? :L
From their previous posts, it doesn't run if;
- It's snowing
- There are leaves on the track
- It's too hot
- It's too windy
- It's raining heavy
Pathetic really. It's like the 'all weather' football pitch we had at school. Couldn't use it if it was icy, snowing, or too wet...
(24 Jul 2013, 4:35 pm)aureolin wrote [ -> ]From their previous posts, it doesn't run if;- It's snowing
- There are leaves on the track
- It's too hot
- It's too windy
- It's raining heavy
Pathetic really. It's like the 'all weather' football pitch we had at school. Couldn't use it if it was icy, snowing, or too wet...
It is, i'm glad i never use the metro, question time....
London has being hotter than up here, why has their transport system not failed yet due to the "extreme weather", The metro is just using excuses now.
Well, we all know about how greatly the climate and weather conditions vary across the entire Metro network.
Down 'south' in tropical South Hylton, the Metro has to pass through the rain forests of Palion and Millfield before reaching the beacon of civility that is Sunderland. Passengers are urged to fill up their water-bottles at Parl Lane Interchange and drink as much as they can as the intense heat can mess with your health as well as the Metro.
The baron ,desolate landscapes of Equatorial Gateshead are also known to cause havoc due to the arid heat. Heading north into Newcastle, the climate is more moderate but the shear volume of people place the Metro under immense pressure especially during the rush hour. Eastwards, across the saltplains of Jarrow and Howdon, coastal storms strongly affect conditions there. Occasionally, tsunamis are known to appear near Cullercoats and Tynemouth penetrating inwards up the Tyne towards riverside locations.
It's gets colder as the Metro heads further North towards Jesmond, Gosforth and Regent Centre. By the time you get to Kingston Park, icicles begin to appear on the windows. Kingston Park Tesco offers an opportunity for travelers to purchase thermal clothing before heading into the tundra of Bank Foot and Callerton Parkway. Newcastle Airport is, without doubt, the coldest place on the Metro system. Only the brave can withstand the arctic temperatures. Many try; very few live to tell the tale.
Taking this all into consideration, it is evident that extreme weather exists across the Metro system. We should be thankful for what we've got.
There are no trains running between Monument and Heworth due to a police incident. Go North East are accepting Metro tickets in the affected area. Bus services 27 operate between Monument and Heworth.