North East Buses

Who agrees the service 85/X85/185/685 should fall under the Sapphire brand or even Max I prefer Sapphire over max

(01 Jun 2015, 9:24 am)Racer_Experience wrote [ -> ]Who agrees the service 85/X85/185/685 should fall under the Sapphire brand or even Max I prefer Sapphire over max

It won't be Max or Sapphire - a new brand will have to be agreed with Stagecoach.

(01 Jun 2015, 9:24 am)Racer_Experience wrote [ -> ]Who agrees the service 85/X85/185/685 should fall under the Sapphire brand or even Max I prefer Sapphire over max

Yes! (Although I may be slightly biased.... )

Can't see 185 lasting much longer, to be honest I wasn't expecting it to last as long as it has now!
It would be great to have it under decker operation too (even a mix of single and double like the 7) even if a few changes would have to be made, such as:

685A/85A- Single Deck operation - 1 bus every 2 hours

Newcastle Eldon Square - Brighton Grove - General Hospital - Denton Burn - fast (A69) to Heddon & Horsley - Corbridge (back roads from Styford roundabout) - fast (A69) to Hexham Rail Station - Hexham Bus Station - Haydon Bridge - fast (A69) to Haltwhistle Town Centre - Brampton (either Moot Hall [as currently] or on Front Street) - Brampton Townfoot Ind Estate - fast (A689) to Carlisle, Brampton Road - Carlisle Bus Station via Eden Bridges and Hardwicke Circus.

685B/85B - Double Deck operation - 1 bus every 2 hours

Newcastle Eldon Square - West Road - General Hospital - Denton Burn - Lemington Road Ends - Throckley - Heddon & Horsley - Corbridge Hill Street (fast on A69 past Styford roundabout) - Dilston - Hexham Bus Station - fast (A69) to Bardon Mill & Henshaw - *usage dependent* back roads to Haltwhistle via Melkridge - Brampton Town Centre - Warwick Bridge - Carlisle via Warwick Road (as currently).

X85 - Double Deck operation - peak times or 1 bus every 3-4 hours

Newcastle Eldon Square - A167 (around the top) - *traffic dependent* A191 to Denton or A167 to A1 junction - non-stop to Corbridge, Hill Street (via A69) and around Corbridge on Watling Street - non-stop to Hexham, Rail Station (via A69) - Hexham Bus Station.
One or two buses per day could then continue to Carlisle as follows:
Hexham Bus Station - Hexham Rail Station - non-stop (A69) to Haltwhistle, Rail Station - non-stop (via Brampton Bypass [A69]) to Carlisle, Bus Station via A689, Brampton Road and Eden Bridges.

185s could be formed of a smaller-sized vehicle which serves the current route:
Haltwhistle, Rail Station - Military Road - (Summer Only) Walltown Quarry - Greenhead - Longbyre - Gilsland - Low Row - Brampton Town Centre - Warwick Bridge - Carlisle.


Notes:
685A and X85 using the A689 and Brampton Road will be beneficial as not only does it have the horrible traffic jams that Warwick Road does (the current route) but both services can also serve Carlisle Airport which is currently under construction to open in the next year or two (this could be used as a great marketing tool if advertised as no railway will run direct to the airport for a good while).

I chose double deckers for 685B as they do not serve Styford Roundabout - Corbridge via the road with lots of low-hanging trees (imo the only restriction to decker usage on 85?)
With the 'leapfrog' method also of alternate services serving alternate places this mitigates against long journey times, however some places lose their hourly service to be 2-hourly.

185 must be formed from 685A vehicles due to the general unsuitability of deckers on this route (most notably a low bridge at Gilsland)

I chose the A167 for X85 to go 'round the top' as I'd say it'll be slightly quicker, less mundane and it's more non-stop than West Road (traffic lights etc).

Finally, the reason I give for the X85 continuing to Carlisle is that it would be in direct competition with the rail service, taking a somewhat similar time to the train.


-----

(01 Jun 2015, 2:56 pm)Tommy_1581 wrote [ -> ]It won't be Max or Sapphire - a new brand will have to be agreed with Stagecoach.

I doubt it. If anything, Stagecoach would probably launch it as a premium service in reaction to Arriva so as not to lose custom. Stagecoach's E300s have free Wifi and seatbelts whereas Arriva's Omnicities do not - Wifi being the main difference between a premium brand and not.

Why don't Arriva get an express back on the Coast Road? The only reason the 44 didn't make money was because it served Norham Rd and New York rather than the populated Billy Mill / Lynn Road areas. Would take alot of pressure of the 308, the 306 wouldn't need to continue to Whitley Bay and it could also provide peak time X9 workings.

- Service X38 Mon to Sat every 30 mins serving Whitley Bay, Marden, Rake Lane, Lynn Road, Billy Mill, Formica then limited stop to Haymarket only calling at Willington Square and St Mary's Place. PVR would be 3 (increase would be 2 with a PVR reducton of 1 on the 306). Service would be cut in the morning eastbound to cater for X9 workings and same would apply westbound during the afternoon Mon to Fri peak.

I like Northern156s idea I think that idea would work best with sapphire.
The thing is isn't the 85/685 tendered by Northumberland county council? im sure I heard that somewhere.
If they are then all this upgrading to sapphire and express services would all have to be run commercially and I don't think Arriva would do that.
 
the best types of buses for this route would be

Maybe single deckers would be Volvo B8RLE MCV or wright body Scania irazar i3
         and double deckers Scania Enviro 400MMC

as this route is very rural and demanding these would be the best but you know Arriva, probably just buy some streetlites that will be torn to pieces in 2 years!!

(05 Jun 2015, 9:31 pm)South Tyne Lad wrote [ -> ]I like Northern156s idea I think that idea would work best with sapphire.
The thing is isn't the 85/685 tendered by Northumberland county council? im sure I heard that somewhere.
If they are then all this upgrading to sapphire and express services would all have to be run commercially and I don't think Arriva would do that.
 
the best types of buses for this route would be

Maybe single deckers would be Volvo B8RLE MCV or wright body Scania irazar i3
         and double deckers Scania Enviro 400MMC

as this route is very rural and demanding these would be the best but you know Arriva, probably just buy some streetlites that will be torn to pieces in 2 years!!

The route definitely isn't tendered by Northumberland, the 85/685 is operated on a commercial basis, as is the 185. 

I agree, knowing Arriva they would just stick Streetlites on there. But the service definitely doesn't justify double deckers, it's quite often that the service carries no more than double figures between Newcastle and Hexham, possibly because of competition by GNE on the Tynedalexpress, which seems to be doing extremely well at the minute.

(05 Jun 2015, 9:31 pm)South Tyne Lad wrote [ -> ]I like Northern156s idea I think that idea would work best with sapphire.
The thing is isn't the 85/685 tendered by Northumberland county council? im sure I heard that somewhere.
If they are then all this upgrading to sapphire and express services would all have to be run commercially and I don't think Arriva would do that.
 
the best types of buses for this route would be

Maybe single deckers would be Volvo B8RLE MCV or wright body Scania irazar i3
         and double deckers Scania Enviro 400MMC

as this route is very rural and demanding these would be the best but you know Arriva, probably just buy some streetlites that will be torn to pieces in 2 years!!

Can't be Sapphire, Sapphire is a frequency (or combined frequency) of at least 15 minutes. The 85/185/685 isn't that.

(07 Jun 2015, 3:16 pm)Tommy_1581 wrote [ -> ]Can't be Sapphire, Sapphire is a frequency (or combined frequency) of at least 15 minutes. The 85/185/685 isn't that.

Not always. Service 38 in Cheshire is only hourly.

(07 Jun 2015, 3:19 pm)tyresmoke wrote [ -> ]Not always. Service 38 in Cheshire is only hourly.

The ever-changing specifications of Max and Sapphire. 

(07 Jun 2015, 3:19 pm)tyresmoke wrote [ -> ]Not always. Service 38 in Cheshire is only hourly.

I think it's the website that references frequent. Unfortunately it won't load on my phone, so I can't confirm that.

(07 Jun 2015, 10:11 pm)aureolin wrote [ -> ]I think it's the website that references frequent. Unfortunately it won't load on my phone, so I can't confirm that.

In the FAQs it says the following for "how often do Sapphire bus run?"

One of the key features of Sapphire services is that they run at least every 60 minutes. Many run even more often. Check out the route pages.


Unfortunately I am also on my phone right now.

(07 Jun 2015, 10:17 pm)Jimmi wrote [ -> ]In the FAQs it says the following for "how often do Sapphire bus run?"

One of the key features of Sapphire services is that they run at least every 60 minutes. Many run even more often. Check out the route pages.


Unfortunately I am also on my phone right now.

That's changed since I last looked at it...

It's not really a key feature, loads of bus services are hourly.

EDIT:
[attachment=6790]

(09 Jun 2015, 10:44 am)Tommy_1581 wrote [ -> ]That's changed since I last looked at it...

It's not really a key feature, loads of bus services are hourly.

I haven't really looked at that site (apart from the home page when I connect to Sapphire WiFi) sinice the 7 was launched as Sapphire and I think when I looked then I think it did say services operated at least every 15 minutes.

If double decks were to prove popular on the 7, do you think the 7 could go all double deck with a reduced frequency of every 20 minutes?

(09 Jun 2015, 4:39 pm)DaveyBowyer wrote [ -> ]If double decks were to prove popular on the 7, do you think the 7 could go all double deck with a reduced frequency of every 20 minutes?

I think the service could justify fully double decker operation at a increased frequency not a reduced one, increase it to every 10 minutes with fully double deck operation.

(09 Jun 2015, 4:39 pm)DaveyBowyer wrote [ -> ]If double decks were to prove popular on the 7, do you think the 7 could go all double deck with a reduced frequency of every 20 minutes?

(09 Jun 2015, 5:52 pm)South Tyne Lad wrote [ -> ]I think the service could justify fully double decker operation at a increased frequency not a reduced one, increase it to every 10 minutes with fully double deck operation.

Let's look at capacity:

The Pulsar seat 40
The E400 seat 78

So:
10 Pulsars with 40 seats = 400
5 Pulsars with 40 seats + 5 E400s with 78 seats = 590 (200 and 390)
10 E400s with 78 seats = 780

To go to every 10 minutes, you'd need 14 vehicles to cover the 2 hour 30 minutes round trip. I seriously doubt it will require a frequency increase and capacity increase at the same time.

(09 Jun 2015, 6:42 pm)Kuyoyo wrote [ -> ]Let's look at capacity:

The Pulsar seat 40
The E400 seat 78

So:
10 Pulsars with 40 seats = 400
5 Pulsars with 40 seats + 5 E400s with 78 seats = 590 (200 and 390)
10 E400s with 78 seats = 780

To go to every 10 minutes, you'd need 14 vehicles to cover the 2 hour 30 minutes round trip. I seriously doubt it will require a frequency increase and capacity increase at the same time.

Current capacity every 15 minutes on single decks every hour would be 160ish seats. But of the 7 went fully double deck but was reduced to every 20 minutes, it would provide 234 seats per hour.

(09 Jun 2015, 6:42 pm)Kuyoyo wrote [ -> ]Let's look at capacity:

The Pulsar seat 40
The E400 seat 78

So:
10 Pulsars with 40 seats = 400
5 Pulsars with 40 seats + 5 E400s with 78 seats = 590 (200 and 390)
10 E400s with 78 seats = 780

To go to every 10 minutes, you'd need 14 vehicles to cover the 2 hour 30 minutes round trip. I seriously doubt it will require a frequency increase and capacity increase at the same time.

I don't think there is much need in increasing the frequency or making the service fully double deck operated on the 7 as I am a regular passenger on the 7 and you will often see the double deckers during the daytime going around not even half full during the daytime, the main reason why double deckers were purchased was because of peak time loadings.

The other reason I can't see there being a frequency increase/decrease on the 7 is because the 7 is also linked with services 5/5A, 8 and 21 to create a combined frequency of roughly 7/8 minutes between Darlington Town Centre and Newton Aycliffe Town Centre (although slightly different routes are observed in Aycliffe).

(05 Jun 2015, 10:06 pm)Tom wrote [ -> ]The route definitely isn't tendered by Northumberland, the 85/685 is operated on a commercial basis, as is the 185. 

I agree, knowing Arriva they would just stick Streetlites on there. But the service definitely doesn't justify double deckers, it's quite often that the service carries no more than double figures between Newcastle and Hexham, possibly because of competition by GNE on the Tynedalexpress, which seems to be doing extremely well at the minute.

Going back to this if I may.

I disagree. Once it gets past pensioner pass am, the services between Carlisle and Newcastle as a whole (not a lot of people travelling further than Hexham would be bothered to change buses to GNE there) can get very busy, I've been on 1000-1200 services before which haven't been able to fit any more standees on.
This is also true for some peak-time services I've been on from both Carlisle and Newcastle (the latter mostly being people going to bloody Throckley!)

Streetlites wouldn't last very long, given their unreliability on other routes. An increase of frequency would be needed if this was the case also.

As much as I dislike them, I'd say the Omnicities are good for the single-deck operation of the route (those or my preferred choice, the Pulsars which aren't restricted) with double-deck operation possibly going to VDL SB300/Wright Eclipse Gemini 2s or ADL Enviro 400s (I think the former would be more suitable).

The main reason I give for it to be upgraded to MAX/Sapphire is it could run in direct competition with the hourly rail service. Hell, the X85 to Carlisle would take around the same time as the train, given it doesn't have excessive calling points.

Mind you, none of this would properly work if Stagecoach were to run as they do so now - they haven't changed to match Arriva exactly in the past couple of timetable changes (for example keeping the one service per day via Gilsland, the 1754 Carlisle to Hexham) as well as changing the route number to match Arriva's.
If Stagecoach didn't really want to change a lot, the vehicles they currently use (ADL E300s) are absolutely fine; although I've seen them pretty busy at times - E400s could be used here.

(12 Jun 2015, 7:33 pm)northern156 wrote [ -> ]Going back to this if I may.

I disagree. Once it gets past pensioner pass am, the services between Carlisle and Newcastle as a whole (not a lot of people travelling further than Hexham would be bothered to change buses to GNE there) can get very busy, I've been on 1000-1200 services before which haven't been able to fit any more standees on.
This is also true for some peak-time services I've been on from both Carlisle and Newcastle (the latter mostly being people going to bloody Throckley!)

Streetlites wouldn't last very long, given their unreliability on other routes. An increase of frequency would be needed if this was the case also.

As much as I dislike them, I'd say the Omnicities are good for the single-deck operation of the route (those or my preferred choice, the Pulsars which aren't restricted) with double-deck operation possibly going to VDL SB300/Wright Eclipse Gemini 2s or ADL Enviro 400s (I think the former would be more suitable).

The main reason I give for it to be upgraded to MAX/Sapphire is it could run in direct competition with the hourly rail service. Hell, the X85 to Carlisle would take around the same time as the train, given it doesn't have excessive calling points.

Mind you, none of this would properly work if Stagecoach were to run as they do so now - they haven't changed to match Arriva exactly in the past couple of timetable changes (for example keeping the one service per day via Gilsland, the 1754 Carlisle to Hexham) as well as changing the route number to match Arriva's.
If Stagecoach didn't really want to change a lot, the vehicles they currently use (ADL E300s) are absolutely fine; although I've seen them pretty busy at times - E400s could be used here.

I think the problem would be should Stagecoach match Arriva or should Arriva match Stagecoach.....