(19 Sep 2022, 10:44 am)Storx wrote [ -> ]See if I was going to do stuff I think I'd be more radical than that and do something like:
X7 - No Changes
X8 - Do the old 363 route via Fern Drive, extended to Morpeth hourly to replace the 43 extension instead of heading to Blyth.
X9 - No Changes (when new housing built run through new estates - see below)
X10/X11 - No Changes
42 - Newcastle to Seaton Burn (turn around at roundabout) only, Every 30 Minutes (when new housing is built at Cramlington and roads opened extended to Cramlington - see below)
43 - Dropped to every 30 minutes, partially replaced by X8 via Dudley and extended to Blyth on X8 route instead of Morpeth (when new housing is built at Cramlington and roads opened run via new estates)
44 - Every 30 Minutes
45 - Every 30 Minutes
46 - No Changes
52 - Same route Newcastle to Four Lane Ends, 55 route to Palmersville, 53 route to Killingworth, same route to Cramlington
53 - No Changes
54 - Additionally serve Four Lane Ends
55 - Withdrawn, Meadway section replaced by 52, South Gosforth to Newcastle covered by X7/X8.
1 - Curtailed at Wansbeck Hospital (PVR 3)
2 - No Changes
56 - Cramlington to Cresswell, hourly (PVR 2)
57 - Whitley Bay to Cramlington via Seghill, Annitsford, direct to Manor Walks, hourly (when new housing built run through new estates - see below)
57A - No Change (PVR 3 Combined)
Everything else remain the same.
Benefits:
New Morpeth and Bedlington to Quorum service (X8)
South Beach gets service back to Regent Centre (43)
Seghill gets 30 minute service back to Whitley Bay / Cramlington
Removed duplicate service 55 and serve more areas with 52 restoring Forest Hall to Cramlington links lost with GNE, the time difference isn't much.
Guide Post and Stakeford get direct Wansbeck Hospital service.
Everything else is pretty much the same.
New routes in future:
43/57 - Lime Route
42 - Orange Route
X9 - Pink Route
Your 52 would also give Forest Hall back a bus to the Freeman Hospital
(20 Sep 2022, 8:33 am)V514DFT wrote [ -> ]Your 52 would also give Forest Hall back a bus to the Freeman Hospital
Aye your right, missed that one ngl.
I'd also swap the 53 and 54
53- Cramlington-Whitley Bay
54-Newcastle-North Shields
Never understood why it was swapped in the first place after the 56/X6 was axed, ran perfectly fine when it was the 356
(20 Sep 2022, 7:36 pm)V514DFT wrote [ -> ]I'd also swap the 53 and 54
53- Cramlington-Whitley Bay
54-Newcastle-North Shields
Never understood why it was swapped in the first place after the 56/X6 was axed, ran perfectly fine when it was the 356
Must admit I didn't really get that one, guessing the people in Backworth preferred a bus to Whitley over North Shields. All I can really think of tbh.
I'm surprised the 52/53/54 are all still full size buses, the 52 (340/342) and 53 (343/344) ran with minibuses for years and they never really shouted out at bus routes that needed anything bigger tbh. Whenever I see them now they never seem to need anything bigger either tbh but there might be some areas I miss where they actually need them.
The 52/53/54 are strange routes tbh, sometimes it gets rammed, then other times it carries fresh air
(20 Sep 2022, 7:36 pm)V514DFT wrote [ -> ]I'd also swap the 53 and 54
53- Cramlington-Whitley Bay
54-Newcastle-North Shields
Never understood why it was swapped in the first place after the 56/X6 was axed, ran perfectly fine when it was the 356
53 used to go to Whitley Bay years ago when it ran from Blyth to Whitley Bay via Cramlington and the current route from Cramlington to New York. Remember doing the whole run of it on a V reg dart, was about 2 hours end to end from Blyth to Whitley Bay.
(28 Sep 2022, 1:46 pm)GNE6312 wrote [ -> ]53 used to go to Whitley Bay years ago when it ran from Blyth to Whitley Bay via Cramlington and the current route from Cramlington to New York. Remember doing the whole run of it on a V reg dart, was about 2 hours end to end from Blyth to Whitley Bay.
The 53 ran from Whitley to Cramlington for years with the Vario's then MPD's. It's just the old 343/344 which used to extend to Morpeth aswell instead of the 43.
Not sure if you knew then for some reason they swapped what was the 356, now partially the 54 and 53 around around 2012 I believe it was.
The 56/57/57A used to interwork hence the number change so it was easier to change the manual blinds at North Shields.
(13 Aug 2022, 9:35 am)L469 YVK wrote [ -> ]A hypothetical one here, would Arriva not have been better off doing a deal with GNE?
GNE > Arriva
- 21 - Arriva takes this on and operates out of Belmont.
- GNE keep the X21 to keep CMA happy.
Arriva > GNE
- All Jesmond routes bar the 306 which is kept by Arriva and moved to Blyth. 685 moved to Hexham.
* All other services split between Percy Main & Riverside.
Benefits:
- Dead mileage reduced for both operators (although GNE would need to keep the X21 > could find space at Washington maybe moving the 8 to Consett and doing remote reliefs at Stanley).
- ANE get another 'gold mine' route in their portfolio alongside the 308 as well as some drivers from GNE's CLS operation if they agreed to TUPE and move to Belmont.
- GNE get an increased presence again in North Tyneside and can (hopefully under a new MD) stabilise their network.
- ANE can have a stronger focus concentrating on Blyth & Ashington.
I'm not going to hunt for your post which always mentioning it.
But I actually agree than Arriva should probably try later buses on the X7 / X11 / X21 / 308 possibly using the 43 / 44 / 45 / 52 / 53 / 54 buses which terminate in Newcastle at a night to get them back to Blyth / Ashington even if it's just a Saturday.
I'm not sure whether last night was a freak night but it's busiest I've seen all them at 11pm even before Covid. The X7 believe had 35+, there was still 24 on board at Seaton Delaval and quite a few had already left. The X11 and X21 seemed even busier. The X11 nearly filled a double decker (and I'm not talking 1 person per seat).
Mind it was noticeable how dead the Jesmond routes were on the other hand the 52 was single numbers and the 43 didn't seem much better (why on earth does the 52 and X7 leave a same time is a mystery considering the duplication of the routes and their both hourly but that's another thing).
Wonder if we might see long term the likes of the last 52 scrapped and running on the X7 instead with the inbound X7 terminating at Seghill to save buses, the inbound buses are always dead to get them back to the depot.
(02 Oct 2022, 6:20 am)Storx wrote [ -> ]But I actually agree than Arriva should probably try later buses on the X7 / X11 / X21 / 308 possibly using the 43 / 44 / 45 / 52 / 53 / 54 buses which terminate in Newcastle at a night to get them back to Blyth / Ashington even if it's just a Saturday.
I'm not sure whether last night was a freak night but it's busiest I've seen all them at 11pm even before Covid. The X7 believe had 35+, there was still 24 on board at Seaton Delaval and quite a few had already left. The X11 and X21 seemed even busier. The X11 nearly filled a double decker (and I'm not talking 1 person per seat).
Not at all a freak night, for a good few hours after the last bus departures there's an endless stream of hackney carriages heading north out of Newcastle.
Nights in Newcastle do fluctuate, sometimes the peak of it ends earlier which will fill up the last buses, but most of the time the peak ends later meaning that taxis handle it.
Some later bus departures might cut down on the amount of taxi drivers driving like dickheads up the Spine Road...
(02 Oct 2022, 7:09 am)omnicity4659 wrote [ -> ]Not at all a freak night, for a good few hours after the last bus departures there's an endless stream of hackney carriages heading north out of Newcastle.
Nights in Newcastle do fluctuate, sometimes the peak of it ends earlier which will fill up the last buses, but most of the time the peak ends later meaning that taxis handle it.
Some later bus departures might cut down on the amount of taxi drivers driving like dickheads up the Spine Road...
Ah I didn't mean Newcastle there, I just meant the buses. Newcastle was quite quiet last night tbf but I've never seen Haymarket so busy. It's usually only 10 - 15 people on them whenever I've used it in the past.
Agreed with the taxis though around 3am but tbh I could imagine a lot of them will refuse to use the bus anyway for whatever reason.
Newcastle did seem extremely busy yesterday compared to a Normal saturday, I thought there was a match on (there wasn't). All Arriva/GNE buses I saw were all quite busy.
(02 Oct 2022, 6:20 am)Storx wrote [ -> ]I'm not going to hunt for your post which always mentioning it.
But I actually agree than Arriva should probably try later buses on the X7 / X11 / X21 / 308 possibly using the 43 / 44 / 45 / 52 / 53 / 54 buses which terminate in Newcastle at a night to get them back to Blyth / Ashington even if it's just a Saturday.
I'm not sure whether last night was a freak night but it's busiest I've seen all them at 11pm even before Covid. The X7 believe had 35+, there was still 24 on board at Seaton Delaval and quite a few had already left. The X11 and X21 seemed even busier. The X11 nearly filled a double decker (and I'm not talking 1 person per seat).
Mind it was noticeable how dead the Jesmond routes were on the other hand the 52 was single numbers and the 43 didn't seem much better (why on earth does the 52 and X7 leave a same time is a mystery considering the duplication of the routes and their both hourly but that's another thing).
Wonder if we might see long term the likes of the last 52 scrapped and running on the X7 instead with the inbound X7 terminating at Seghill to save buses, the inbound buses are always dead to get them back to the depot.
In a lot of instances, moving the last departutres to between 11:20 and 11:30 would work well.
If Arriva did however re-introduce a 30 minute Monday to Saturday evening service on the 306 & 308 (every 15 mins combined), I'd say the best laat departures would be:
306 - 22:42 - Sundays
308 - 22:42 - Monday to Saturday
306 - 22:57 - Monday to Saturday
308 - 23:12 - Daily
306 - 23:32 - Daily
308 - 23:52 - *Friday & Saturday only*
Note the last 308 on a Fri & Sat would work off the 44 (23:15 ex Dinnington)
(02 Oct 2022, 4:25 pm)L469 YVK wrote [ -> ]In a lot of instances, moving the last departutres to between 11:20 and 11:30 would work well.
If Arriva did however re-introduce a 30 minute Monday to Saturday evening service on the 306 & 308 (every 15 mins combined), I'd say the best laat departures would be:
306 - 22:42 - Sundays
308 - 22:42 - Monday to Saturday
306 - 22:57 - Monday to Saturday
308 - 23:12 - Daily
306 - 23:32 - Daily
308 - 23:52 - *Friday & Saturday only*
Note the last 308 on a Fri & Sat would work off the 44 (23:15 ex Dinnington)
Aye disagree too much really bar the 44 is going to Ashington I believe rather than Blyth or it was in the early rumours so ideally that would have to go onto an X21/X22 instead which probably wouldn't be too bad to have a later service either.
Mind I'd be tempted to say flip the 306/308 around so you have the 23:32, 308 and then have the later 306 on a Saturday maybe extended to Whitley Bay / Blyth to try and pick up a few punters from Tynemouth heading home. It would give an option home beyond midnight, the last Metro being 23:55 and 1 23:19
I do believe there's a 52 and 54 which come in as late though.
When the new railway comes to Ashington, changes to the X21/X22 to serve more areas as a 20 minute service will be overkill via Bedlington station.
X21 - X22 route to Bedlington, X21 route to Jubilee Ind. Estate, Newbiggin Road, College Road, Hawthorn Road, Ashington Bus Station, Current Route to Newbiggin (Every 30 Minutes)
X22 - Current route to Ashington then Woodhorn Road, Woodhorn Lane, Hunstanton, Garcia Drive, Pine Valley Way - Terminate (Every 30 Minutes)
X23 - X21 Route to Bedlington, X22 route to Guide Post, Stakeford Lane, Ramsheid Road, Blackthorn Way, Wansbeck Road, Green Lane, N Seaton Road, Ashington (Every 30 Minutes)
New X21 -
https://www.google.com/maps/dir/55.18500...978252!3e0
New X22 -
https://www.google.com/maps/dir/55.18091...63!1m0!3e0
New X23 -
https://www.google.com/maps/dir/55.18414...63!1m0!3e0
Reasons: Faster service to Newbiggin avoiding Nedderton, serve more areas of Ashington including new housing estates which are unserved and reduces the X21 which are going to be hampered by the train.
Loses: Nedderton and Newbiggin slightly decreased service, Milburn Road loses bus but Hawthorn Road is 100m to the East.
(26 Nov 2022, 8:58 am)Storx wrote [ -> ]When the new railway comes to Ashington, changes to the X21/X22 to serve more areas as a 20 minute service will be overkill via Bedlington station.
X21 - X22 route to Bedlington, X21 route to Jubilee Ind. Estate, Newbiggin Road, College Road, Hawthorn Road, Ashington Bus Station, Current Route to Newbiggin (Every 30 Minutes)
X22 - Current route to Ashington then Woodhorn Road, Woodhorn Lane, Hunstanton, Garcia Drive, Pine Valley Way - Terminate (Every 30 Minutes)
X23 - X21 Route to Bedlington, X22 route to Guide Post, Stakeford Lane, Ramsheid Road, Blackthorn Way, Wansbeck Road, Green Lane, N Seaton Road, Ashington (Every 30 Minutes)
New X21 - https://www.google.com/maps/dir/55.18500...978252!3e0
New X22 - https://www.google.com/maps/dir/55.18091...63!1m0!3e0
New X23 - https://www.google.com/maps/dir/55.18414...63!1m0!3e0
Reasons: Faster service to Newbiggin avoiding Nedderton, serve more areas of Ashington including new housing estates which are unserved and reduces the X21 which are going to be hampered by the train.
Loses: Nedderton and Newbiggin slightly decreased service, Milburn Road loses bus but Hawthorn Road is 100m to the East.
Only issue I could foresee is a 10-6-14 service from the Red Lion unless the X23 followed a similar stopping pattern to the 'old' X22 and X33 immediately turning onto Glebe Road from Ridge Terrace.
(26 Nov 2022, 6:17 pm)L469 YVK wrote [ -> ]Only issue I could foresee is a 10-6-14 service from the Red Lion unless the X23 followed a similar stopping pattern to the 'old' X22 and X33 immediately turning onto Glebe Road from Ridge Terrace.
To be fair it's already like that anyway with it being 14 - 6 instead atm. Arguably it's a slight improvement in a way but I'm not sure if I'd just pull the X23 out of it altogether maybe with singles.
So the X21/X22 run every 15 minutes between Bedlington and the X23 just runs inbetween, maybe 5 minutes infront of the X21 out of Newcastle so it groups back together at Bedlington so it's every 15 minutes from there to Ashington instead with the X22.
Similar to how the X9/X10/X11 work from Blyth. Anyone with sense from Bedlington itself would take the X22 anyway rather than the detour round Nedderton if they could especially if it was 4 buses an hour.
Undecided on the X23, now thinking this
https://www.google.com/maps/dir/55.18093...63!1m0!3e0 would be better with the X22 terminating short instead. Would give access to the hospital across Ashington and give the top end a link to Newcastle and not kill the 57/57A by duplicating it through Stakeford.
(26 Nov 2022, 8:57 pm)Storx wrote [ -> ]To be fair it's already like that anyway with it being 14 - 6 instead atm. Arguably it's a slight improvement in a way but I'm not sure if I'd just pull the X23 out of it altogether maybe with singles.
So the X21/X22 run every 15 minutes between Bedlington and the X23 just runs inbetween, maybe 5 minutes infront of the X21 out of Newcastle so it groups back together at Bedlington so it's every 15 minutes from there to Ashington instead with the X22.
Similar to how the X9/X10/X11 work from Blyth. Anyone with sense from Bedlington itself would take the X22 anyway rather than the detour round Nedderton if they could especially if it was 4 buses an hour.
Undecided on the X23, now thinking this https://www.google.com/maps/dir/55.18093...63!1m0!3e0 would be better with the X22 terminating short instead. Would give access to the hospital across Ashington and give the top end a link to Newcastle and not kill the 57/57A by duplicating it through Stakeford.
Totally agree about the X21 and missing Nedderton. Although I've had the same debate on here in the past and the one thing (rightly) about the X21 / X22 was that they were a mess before being simplified in 2012 and have remained very stable since. Ironically overseen by GNE's now current MD.
Big danger with the X23 is that route could turn into a 'secondary' route if not successful and overshadowed by the X21/X22 taking most of the loads.
As for the X9, if in future the 43 was split into a 43/43A with the 43 via High Pit, Annitsford and Fern Drive to replace the X8 and a 43A all stops but via Beacon Hill with an hourly extension via the X8 route to Blyth, the X9 could fall in with the X10/X11 following the same route via Southfield Green to give a 10 min combined frequency on common sections.
What seems to be missed quite consistently when discussing the X21/22 is the amount of local trips being made, particularly on the X21.
Cutting the frequency between Ashington/Stakeford/Bedlington Station/Bedlington harms those making small hops, which is a decent chunk of revenue for Arriva given the fares. It's also the type of journey the introduction of trains isn't going to harm.
Increasing the frequency along the X22 route in the suggestions above seems odd, it's generally the weaker of the two routes. The Bedlington to Guide Post section is already covered well by the current X22 and the 2.
I'd get behind serving Blackthorn Way though, that area of Ashington needs a better service and it's easy enough to do. I imagine extending the X22 around the new estate at the hospital once the loop is complete would be the best way to do it, improving links for the elderly folks living around Ashington Drive and Fallowfield.
(26 Nov 2022, 11:33 pm)mb134 wrote [ -> ]What seems to be missed quite consistently when discussing the X21/22 is the amount of local trips being made, particularly on the X21.
Cutting the frequency between Ashington/Stakeford/Bedlington Station/Bedlington harms those making small hops, which is a decent chunk of revenue for Arriva given the fares. It's also the type of journey the introduction of trains isn't going to harm.
Increasing the frequency along the X22 route in the suggestions above seems odd, it's generally the weaker of the two routes. The Bedlington to Guide Post section is already covered well by the current X22 and the 2.
I'd get behind serving Blackthorn Way though, that area of Ashington needs a better service and it's easy enough to do. I imagine extending the X22 around the new estate at the hospital once the loop is complete would be the best way to do it, improving links for the elderly folks living around Ashington Drive and Fallowfield.
Aye no arguments, see I was thinking more trying to sort some of the stacking with the local runs where the 1 follows an X21 etc.
So you'd merge the timetables of the 1/X21 (Every 15 Minutes), 2/X21 (Every 15 Minutes) for the local runs which if they can get them to work would be better, it's arguably better than the 20 / 20 / 10 / 10 on the 1/X21 atm.
I was struggling with the X23 between Bedlington and Ashington if I had to be honest as it's not really needed anywhere but Ashington badly needs more buses. There's quite a few areas underserved. Alexandria Road is poor aswell with only the X20 which ends at 6pm, hence shunting the X21 across one road to kind of cover it (believe that used to be the X30 - might have the numbers mixed up though with the X31).
One personal change I'd love to see is the 57/57A changed so it's half hourly through Seghill again, preferably to the old 10/11 timetable years ago where one went via High Pit and the other went via Fern Drive and direct to Cramlington but I'd probably swap that to using the route via the business park as now than Fern Drive. It's really stupid having 2 buses an hour plus the 58 via East Cramlington which is overkill imo but 1 bus from Seghill to Cramlington (the 19 comes at the same time and is a magical tour).
- X8 - withdrawn and replaced by X7 & 42.
- X9 - Same route between Blyth & Shankhouse then same as X10 to Newcastle. Common 10 minute frequency with X10/X11 from Blyth and between Parkside and Newcastle. Will provide even faster journeys for North Blyth & Bebside. Every 20 minutes combined evenings & Sundays. Late Sunday evening X10 journeys withdrawn and X9 at these times additionally serves Newsham Shops.
- 42 - 'Old' X9/X13 route from Blyth to Newcastle but all stops via Seaton Burn & Wideopen. Every 30 mins Newcastle to Cramlington continuing hourly to Blyth including Amersham Road re-instating link to Regent Centre.
- 43 - Re-routed between Cramlington and Dudley via High Pit, Annitsford and Fern Drive. Every 30 minutes continuing to Morpeth every 60 minutes.
- 44/45 - Re-instated to every 30 minutes each.