To stick my two penneth in - I've often been the only person travelling from Hexham to Newcastle on afternoons and evenings, when using the 685. On all other occasions, it hasn't reached double figures.
Can only imagine this is going to get worse in the future, should Go North East increase the level of work in the Hexham area...
The Carlisle end of the route does very well, however. Had the misfortune of needing to stand on a number of occasions for the first 20-30 minutes of the route..! The more regular frequency at this end of the route (provided by Stagecoach) only provides evidence of this...
(12 Jun 2015, 7:33 pm)northern156 wrote [ -> ]Going back to this if I may.
I disagree. Once it gets past pensioner pass am, the services between Carlisle and Newcastle as a whole (not a lot of people travelling further than Hexham would be bothered to change buses to GNE there) can get very busy, I've been on 1000-1200 services before which haven't been able to fit any more standees on.
This is also true for some peak-time services I've been on from both Carlisle and Newcastle (the latter mostly being people going to bloody Throckley!)
Streetlites wouldn't last very long, given their unreliability on other routes. An increase of frequency would be needed if this was the case also.
As much as I dislike them, I'd say the Omnicities are good for the single-deck operation of the route (those or my preferred choice, the Pulsars which aren't restricted) with double-deck operation possibly going to VDL SB300/Wright Eclipse Gemini 2s or ADL Enviro 400s (I think the former would be more suitable).
The main reason I give for it to be upgraded to MAX/Sapphire is it could run in direct competition with the hourly rail service. Hell, the X85 to Carlisle would take around the same time as the train, given it doesn't have excessive calling points.
Mind you, none of this would properly work if Stagecoach were to run as they do so now - they haven't changed to match Arriva exactly in the past couple of timetable changes (for example keeping the one service per day via Gilsland, the 1754 Carlisle to Hexham) as well as changing the route number to match Arriva's.
If Stagecoach didn't really want to change a lot, the vehicles they currently use (ADL E300s) are absolutely fine; although I've seen them pretty busy at times - E400s could be used here.
Tottaly agree with you! Though the double decker couldn't be VDL SB300 Wright Gemini 2s as there totally not suited to this route,
Enviro 400s with uprated engines would be the best choice, Even better if any dealer stock Volvo B9TLs were for up for grabs ( Doubt it though )
Scania omnicites will be fit for another 10 years if Arriva give them a full overhaul from the chassis up, converting them to MAX in the process.
MAX would probably be the most likely
Also get 1415 from Belmont to Jesmond to act as a spare to save the Belmont kerfuffle
and im sure I read somewhere that Arriva are converting it to MAX standard
(12 Jun 2015, 7:41 pm)citaro5284 wrote [ -> ]I think the problem would be should Stagecoach match Arriva or should Arriva match Stagecoach.....
Given that Arriva have been the only ones to make major changes to the route (with Stagecoach then following suit) and the fact they run 4 out of the 6 vehicles on the route, I'd imagine they'd have to make the first move.
Conversely, Stagecoach in Cumbria (Carlisle especially) have been money saving mad recently, what with ordering the new Optare Solo SRs in favour of the Enviro 200s and giving a pretty nasty blow to their drivers with regards minibus T&Cs. Therefore it may not be as easy as I'd like to think.
(12 Jun 2015, 7:47 pm)Dan wrote [ -> ]To stick my two penneth in - I've often been the only person travelling from Hexham to Newcastle on afternoons and evenings, when using the 685. On all other occasions, it hasn't reached double figures.
Can only imagine this is going to get worse in the future, should Go North East increase the level of work in the Hexham area...
The Carlisle end of the route does very well, however. Had the misfortune of needing to stand on a number of occasions for the first 20-30 minutes of the route..! The more regular frequency at this end of the route (provided by Stagecoach) only provides evidence of this...
With regards to evenings Dan, do you think Arriva's X85 may have contributed to this? Seeing as it's the only 'true' express route (omitting Heddon and Horsley unlike GNE's X85) I think it may have taken passengers back.
Should the route become MAX/Sapphire this could increase the benefits to passengers such as nicer seating [admittedly you can't really beat GNE's overall seating IMO] and Wifi or even plug sockets (to then become more favourable over GNE?).
However prices would have to come down also as I think this is the biggest factor.
Regarding the Carlisle end of the route, from what I've seen it's consistently busy all day. It's a slight shame it only goes to Brampton though; if it were to go to Hexham it'd be much easier (but then you can't really stick Solos on that!!).
(12 Jun 2015, 7:50 pm)South Tyne Lad wrote [ -> ]Tottaly agree with you! Though the double decker couldn't be VDL SB300 Wright Gemini 2s as there totally not suited to this route,
Enviro 400s with uprated engines would be the best choice, Even better if any dealer stock Volvo B9TLs were for up for grabs ( Doubt it though )
Scania omnicites will be fit for another 10 years if Arriva give them a full overhaul from the chassis up, converting them to MAX in the process.
MAX would probably be the most likely
Also get 1415 from Belmont to Jesmond to act as a spare to save the Belmont kerfuffle
and im sure I read somewhere that Arriva are converting it to MAX standard
That's very fair then. Just as long as X-reg clapped out DAFs don't make it onto the route!
I also agree with regards to the Omnicities if they had a full refurbishment/overhaul.
(12 Jun 2015, 7:47 pm)Dan wrote [ -> ]To stick my two penneth in - I've often been the only person travelling from Hexham to Newcastle on afternoons and evenings, when using the 685. On all other occasions, it hasn't reached double figures.
Can only imagine this is going to get worse in the future, should Go North East increase the level of work in the Hexham area...
The Carlisle end of the route does very well, however. Had the misfortune of needing to stand on a number of occasions for the first 20-30 minutes of the route..! The more regular frequency at this end of the route (provided by Stagecoach) only provides evidence of this...
The 85/685 is one of those weird services for passenger numbers, seen it carrying a decent amount of passengers at times then other times it has been carrying less passengers. Based on loadings from Newcastle.
Could the 85 be one of those services like many in Newcastle where you have more passengers heading into Newcastle on a morning and then carry more heading out of Newcastle on an evening.
I've only done the 85/685 once and it had a fair few passengers across the route although the Brampton to Carlisle stretch carried the most passengers when I rode it.
re Arriva X85 -
I haven't seen this service for quite a long time now. Last time I saw it, it was running something daft like 10 minutes after the 685 and 5 minutes after GNE's X85, and always departed Newcastle empty. Think there was service changes which changed how the timings worked though, so they were a bit more...sensible.
(12 Jun 2015, 8:11 pm)Jimmi wrote [ -> ]The 85/685 is one of those weird services for passenger numbers, seen it carrying a decent amount of passengers at times then other times it has been carrying less passengers. Based on loadings from Newcastle.
Could the 85 be one of those services like many in Newcastle where you have more passengers heading into Newcastle on a morning and then carry more heading out of Newcastle on an evening.
I've only done the 85/685 once and it had a fair few passengers across the route although the Brampton to Carlisle stretch carried the most passengers when I rode it.
I do agree, on the same service day-to-day you can see any loadings, I think this has part to do with it being on a touristy bit of country.
Brampton and Warwick Bridge are, essentially, mostly housing with most people travelling to Carlisle. You only have mugs like myself who commute daily from outside Brampton into Carlisle!
(12 Jun 2015, 8:11 pm)Dan wrote [ -> ]re Arriva X85 -
I haven't seen this service for quite a long time now. Last time I saw it, it was running something daft like 10 minutes after the 685 and 5 minutes after GNE's X85, and always departed Newcastle empty. Think there was service changes which changed how the timings worked though, so they were a bit more...sensible.
Second-to-last time I was on it (late last year), it was operated by a 306-branded Streetlite Micro Hybrid (I think this is a booked working on the 1715(?)) and there weren't many on, however last time (Pulsar operated) it was full of business people and seemed to be mostly weekly passes.
To give them credit though, I think Arriva's fare system is simpler than GNE's zone-based Buzzfare. Having the ticket for 85 called 'Northumberland Zone' makes it a bit easier rather than Orange/Purple/Cherry.
(12 Jun 2015, 8:30 pm)northern156 wrote [ -> ]Brampton and Warwick Bridge are, essentially, mostly housing with most people travelling to Carlisle. You only have mugs like myself who commute daily from outside Brampton into Carlisle!
Last time I did the 685 some school kids got on in Brampton and they were on the bus for quite a while, think they finally got off in Haltwhistle or somewhere like that.
(12 Jun 2015, 8:30 pm)northern156 wrote [ -> ]I do agree, on the same service day-to-day you can see any loadings, I think this has part to do with it being on a touristy bit of country.
Brampton and Warwick Bridge are, essentially, mostly housing with most people travelling to Carlisle. You only have mugs like myself who commute daily from outside Brampton into Carlisle!
Second-to-last time I was on it (late last year), it was operated by a 306-branded Streetlite Micro Hybrid (I think this is a booked working on the 1715(?)) and there weren't many on, however last time (Pulsar operated) it was full of business people and seemed to be mostly weekly passes.
To give them credit though, I think Arriva's fare system is simpler than GNE's zone-based Buzzfare. Having the ticket for 85 called 'Northumberland Zone' makes it a bit easier rather than Orange/Purple/Cherry.
I thought it was the triple ticket?
Just as confusing as the Buzzfare?
(12 Jun 2015, 8:30 pm)northern156 wrote [ -> ]I do agree, on the same service day-to-day you can see any loadings, I think this has part to do with it being on a touristy bit of country.
Brampton and Warwick Bridge are, essentially, mostly housing with most people travelling to Carlisle. You only have mugs like myself who commute daily from outside Brampton into Carlisle!
Second-to-last time I was on it (late last year), it was operated by a 306-branded Streetlite Micro Hybrid (I think this is a booked working on the 1715(?)) and there weren't many on, however last time (Pulsar operated) it was full of business people and seemed to be mostly weekly passes.
To give them credit though, I think Arriva's fare system is simpler than GNE's zone-based Buzzfare. Having the ticket for 85 called 'Northumberland Zone' makes it a bit easier rather than Orange/Purple/Cherry.
I bet that wasn't enjoyable................. A streetlite on the X85!!
(12 Jun 2015, 8:36 pm)Jimmi wrote [ -> ]Last time I did the 685 some school kids got on in Brampton and they were on the bus for quite a while, think they finally got off in Haltwhistle or somewhere like that.
I used to do the exact same trip. My cousin, who goes to that school, lives in Haydon Bridge and uses the service to/from Brampton.
(12 Jun 2015, 8:38 pm)Tom wrote [ -> ]I thought it was the triple ticket?
Just as confusing as the Buzzfare?
It still has an actual place/county name in as opposed to a colour. I don't see Northumberland's fields all in purple!
(12 Jun 2015, 8:42 pm)South Tyne Lad wrote [ -> ]I bet that wasn't enjoyable................. A streetlite on the X85!!
It was good for the novelty. As I say I think it is a booked job!
(12 Jun 2015, 8:42 pm)South Tyne Lad wrote [ -> ]I bet that wasn't enjoyable................. A streetlite on the X85!!
Ha'way man, I bet people didn't like the Volvo B10BLE / Wright Renowns when they were introduced, they infested the country and now almost every enthusiast loves them basically as there isn't long for them left...
(13 Jun 2015, 12:07 pm)Tommy_1581 wrote [ -> ]Ha'way man, I bet people didn't like the Volvo B10BLE / Wright Renowns when they were introduced, they infested the country and now almost every enthusiast loves them basically as there isn't long for them left...
Are you comparing a Streetlite to a B10BLE here?!
I can say with confidence that nobody will be as sad to see Streetlites go as they will be seeing B10BLE's withdrawn. I know I don't love them because they don't have long left, I love them because they are the last of the beasts, and they are brilliant
(13 Jun 2015, 12:07 pm)Tommy_1581 wrote [ -> ]Ha'way man, I bet people didn't like the Volvo B10BLE / Wright Renowns when they were introduced, they infested the country and now almost every enthusiast loves them basically as there isn't long for them left...
People grow up with certain types of vehicle. B10BLEs have always been something I remember (on the Arriva Hexham 602 for example) travelling on, I remember the sheer enjoyment when one dropped onto the Carlisle - Newcastle 685 one day vice coach.
People who grow up with Streetlites will be sad to see them go when the time comes, too.
I have to say I agree with the two comments above. I imagine, had I not spent my younger years riding Renowns and Prestiges, and just began with them when I first started going out by myself a few years ago, I think I wouldn't feel such an attachment to the vehicle type. I agree with the point by Sean, that the young children who ride the new Streetlites in the years to come, will want to ride as many as possible in their final years. Whenever I see a Renown, I think to myself; I want to be on that... Simply because it's what I spent the happiest days of my life on. It's more memories than anything else that draws people to certain things... It's human nature.
I can tell you for a fact; train enthusiasts will all go absolutely crackers for a ride on the last few Class 142s, because they'll have seen them so much and remember them that much, even if they dislike them, that they want to be on it.
I'm sure Sean once raised a point with me before, that he used to love riding the coaches on the 685, because it's what he grew up on, and had memories of them. Likewise with mb134, and the various types of vehicles used on his local routes. Also with aureolin, he told me waited 40 minutes in the freezing cold rain to ride the last Leyland National on the 194. I'm like that with B10BLEs.
My idea now for the September proposed service changes:
43: As intended by Arriva. Frequency unchanged.
Current 44: Replaced by a few necessary journeys under a different service number.
New 44: Current 43 route to Wideopen / Seaton Burn Bridge Street then up to Moor Farm roundabout then following the current X21 route from Seaton Burn Services to Bedlington Front Street. Every 30 minutes Monday to Saturday and 60 evenings and Sundays.
57: Revised to continue to Bedlington from Cramlington during evenings and Sundays to interwork with the new 44. No other changes.
X21: Revised to serve Hartford Road rather than Nedderton Lane to speed up journey times. Service also given an extra 2 minutes between Bedlington Station and the Red Lion to improve reliability. Frequency increased to every 30 minutes during Sunday daytime between Newcastle and Ashington. One bus per hour to Newbiggin and one per hour to North Seaton Demesne.
X22: 1 minute knocked off between Ashington Bus Station and Park Road and also between Briardene and Ashington Drive. Extra minute gained between Guide Post and Red Lion to slightly improve reliability. Frequency increased to every 30 minutes during Sundays; and all evening journeys would also continue to North Seaton Demesne.
X21 / X22: Both buses would operate a combined 10 minute frequency on 'old Crusader Terms' from Ashington Bus Station and between Bedlington and Newcastle. Therefore, the X21 / X22 combined from Ashington and between Bedlington and Newcastle would run every 9-11 minutes Monday to Saturday and every 14-16 minutes on Sunday daytimes and every 29-31 minutes during the evenings.
X21 / X22 / 35: Revised to use near enough or just pure Monday to Saturday timings on Sunday daytimes (no peak time timings though), to improve reliability on Sundays.
This includes all operators not just Arriva
Going by how successful Dalesbus is how about getting the Northeast Tourism Authority to start up BorderBus.
Services will be tendered like Dalesbus and run from mainly Newcastle but also other places aswell.
Services depending on Height will be mostly Double Deckers to provide capacity aswell as Outstanding views from the top deck.
heres one example of a route....
BB52 Hexham to Kelso running via Keilder and Northumberland National Parks and Jedburgh stopping at most villages for passengers to get off and explore
GNE could provide a B9tl based at Hexham to work the service if not a B7 from Riverside or a single decker in emergencys.
ANE can bring a E400 from Ashington, a B7 from Jesmond or a VDL DB300 from Blyth, Omnicitys in emergencys
DAF DB250s will not be allowed with not being good on hills. or any other operator can operate the route.
tickets will be around a tour operator style ticket with hop on hop off availability. No ENCTs cards or any other passes allowed
Buses running every hour and a half with a PVR of 2 or 3 last bus to Kelso ( 16.00 ) last bus from Kelso ( 18.50 )connecting with Perrymans route 60 in Kelso and
Various routes in Hexham including 85/685.
If you can think of any more routes to suggest reply to this and I will include them in the final timetable soon
hi
i just wanted to suggest a service bu don't know if it would be realistic. the service would start from ashington and head to bothal cottages the turn right and head to the roundabout near widdrington and actually go through widdrington and ulgham and pegswood the terminates at morpeth. then this means that if some residents from ashington want to go to widdrington they dont have to go to morpeth first or have to wait an hour for the number 1 from blyth.
(21 Jul 2015, 7:59 am)buss14 wrote [ -> ]hi
i just wanted to suggest a service bu don't know if it would be realistic. the service would start from ashington and head to bothal cottages the turn right and head to the roundabout near widdrington and actually go through widdrington and ulgham and pegswood the terminates at morpeth. then this means that if some residents from ashington want to go to widdrington they dont have to go to morpeth first or have to wait an hour for the number 1 from blyth.
Catch either the 1 or the X20? Then use the X18 to reach Ulgham?
Maybe a simple rebrand for the X21/X22 could have the service back on track?
If there are going to be new buses for the X21/X22 next year, why not rename it Sapphire Express? Change the numbers to X41/X42, so the farce of the X21/X22 disappears.
Change the "swirls" to a dashed effect, so more dashed and thinner at the bottom to less dashed and bolder towards the top.
This is a suggestion that keeps the Sapphire name, but modifies it.
(25 Jul 2015, 12:38 pm)GX03 SVC wrote [ -> ]Maybe a simple rebrand for the X21/X22 could have the service back on track?
If there are going to be new buses for the X21/X22 next year, why not rename it Sapphire Express? Change the numbers to X41/X42, so the farce of the X21/X22 disappears.
Change the "swirls" to a dashed effect, so more dashed and thinner at the bottom to less dashed and bolder towards the top.
This is a suggestion that keeps the Sapphire name, but modifies it.
But 7505...
I think one of the best bits of branding I've ever seen was 'the express' branding applied to 7410-13, and the R-CKO DAF's, simple but very effective. If they could incorporate that into Sapphire, then that would be brilliant, I think the fact it is an express service needs to be promoted a bit more. There is a distinct impression that, especially with the people I talk to, the buses to Newcastle from Ashington and Bedlington are slow and they may as well take the car, promoting the service as 'the express' again may help?