North East Buses

(24 Aug 2022, 9:05 pm)OrangeArrow49 wrote [ -> ]The 342? Where could Great Park fit into the route? Hopefully it will happen when the new roads eventually open.

Could run it something like this:
https://goo.gl/maps/qrrvmENCCxbiVdhU9

or like this if you wanted to keep Hazlerigg aswell:
https://www.google.com/maps/dir/55.01169...7f!1m0!3e0

(24 Aug 2022, 9:24 pm)Storx wrote [ -> ]Could run it something like this:
https://goo.gl/maps/qrrvmENCCxbiVdhU9

or like this if you wanted to keep Hazlerigg aswell:
https://www.google.com/maps/dir/55.01169...7f!1m0!3e0

Hmm, interesting. Perhaps the 342 would be a good route for Great Park. Time will tell. Great Park continues to be a work in progress, hopefully new links will be created.

(24 Aug 2022, 8:53 pm)mb134 wrote [ -> ]Will an E200 with USB charging and WiFi tempt them?

Do you think a new E200 is likely to be used, or the 46 withdrawn? I’d go with the latter, if I was a betting man!


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(25 Aug 2022, 4:55 am)Dan wrote [ -> ]Do you think a new E200 is likely to be used, or the 46 withdrawn? I’d go with the latter, if I was a betting man!


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Unless the 46 is withdrawn in the next couple of weeks, I'd absolutely say it's more likely that an E200 will appear on there.

(25 Aug 2022, 6:05 am)mb134 wrote [ -> ]Unless the 46 is withdrawn in the next couple of weeks, I'd absolutely say it's more likely that an E200 will appear on there.

Let’s hope the new E200s aren’t used on the 46 from September for the service to be withdrawn at the end of October when Jesmond closes…

We’ve seen the criticism that operators face on this forum for this kind of thing in the past!


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(25 Aug 2022, 6:51 am)Dan wrote [ -> ]Let’s hope the new E200s aren’t used on the 46 from September for the service to be withdrawn at the end of October when Jesmond closes…

We’ve seen the criticism that operators face on this forum for this kind of thing in the past!


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Not sure what your point is there? 

The vehicles are evidently being bought ahead of the CAZ, to be used on any (current) Jesmond minibus work. You would say that with the amount purchased vs current PVR that cutting something has at least been looked at. Obviously Arriva's approach to vehicle allocation is vastly different from other operators, so I'd imagine it's highly likely that they'll be allocated given that they'll be the available minibus vehicles and that the 46 is a minibus route (and interworks with the 51, so the appearance of an E200 is virtually guaranteed). 

I'd say there's a significant difference between that and vehicles being specifically route branded for a route then the route being withdrawn.

(25 Aug 2022, 10:22 am)mb134 wrote [ -> ]Not sure what your point is there? 

The vehicles are evidently being bought ahead of the CAZ, to be used on any (current) Jesmond minibus work. You would say that with the amount purchased vs current PVR that cutting something has at least been looked at. Obviously Arriva's approach to vehicle allocation is vastly different from other operators, so I'd imagine it's highly likely that they'll be allocated given that they'll be the available minibus vehicles and that the 46 is a minibus route (and interworks with the 51, so the appearance of an E200 is virtually guaranteed). 

I'd say there's a significant difference between that and vehicles being specifically route branded for a route then the route being withdrawn.

Has it actually been confirmed that all 14 are still going to Jesmond now?

Haven't heard much about them for awhile and I had a family member the other week who randomly came out with, you'll probably already know but Ashington are getting new 5 new minibuses next month, assuming one of the driver's mentioned it. I know bus / driver gossip is the least reliable gossip going but it was just out the blue, especially considering the other 9 are very very likely going to end up there from October anyway especially with the bother Ashington are having with the 5 Solo's and the Dart pretty much daily now.

2816 breaking down today already just to pick one out.

(25 Aug 2022, 10:56 am)Storx wrote [ -> ]Has it actually been confirmed that all 14 are still going to Jesmond now?

Haven't heard much about them for awhile and I had a family member the other week who randomly came out with, you'll probably already know but Ashington are getting new 5 new minibuses next month, assuming one of the driver's mentioned it. I know bus / driver gossip is the least reliable gossip going but it was just out the blue, especially considering the other 9 are very very likely going to end up there from October anyway especially with the bother Ashington are having with the 5 Solo's and the Dart pretty much daily now.

2816 breaking down today already just to pick one out.

I think given the number of buses : PVR ratio at Ashington the reliability of the solo's must leave a lot to be desired. 

Ashington have 6 Solo's and an MPD for a PVR of 4 on the 57/57A
Whereas Jesmond have 13 Solo's for a PVR of 11

Ideally, like you say, if the 55 were withdrawn you'd have a PVR of 12 with two spares. That should allow 1800 and 2809/12/13/16/17/22 to be withdrawn with the rest perhaps heading to replace some of the older Solo's at Durham/Darlington, certainly the last two in the old old livery at Durham 2818/20 should be withdrawn.

I do teckon the 55 might bite the bullet

Five of the fourteen are going to Ashington, yes. This was confirmed internally.

The remaining 9 are for (on paper - the 55(3) and the 46/51(5) +1 spare).

The 555 and 553 don't need CAZ compliant vehicles. I understand 2601-2603 are being kept for these.

If the 55 or 46 does go, then that will probably convert the 553/555 to E200, as they won't want to split the vehicle batch any more than already planned.

(25 Aug 2022, 5:36 pm)V514DFT wrote [ -> ]I do teckon the 55 might bite the bullet

Prefer Street Fighter or Mortal Kombat to Tekken though it is a good game.

(25 Aug 2022, 5:36 pm)V514DFT wrote [ -> ]I do teckon the 55 might bite the bullet

Shame for the residents of Meadway, Forest Hall, Longbenton and the Matthew Bank area whose only direct bus to the City Centre is the 55. I don’t think can count the 63 as a direct bus from Forest Hall as it goes via Heaton and Byker.

(25 Aug 2022, 7:56 pm)RobinHood wrote [ -> ]Five of the fourteen are going to Ashington, yes. This was confirmed internally.

The remaining 9 are for (on paper - the 55(3) and the 46/51(5) +1 spare).

The 555 and 553 don't need CAZ compliant vehicles. I understand 2601-2603 are being kept for these.

If the 55 or 46 does go, then that will probably convert the 553/555 to E200, as they won't want to split the vehicle batch any more than already planned.

Thank you, wasn't made up bus rumours for once then. Believe it's the first the 57/57A/10/10A/11/12/810/811/442/19/318 or whatever other variation I've missed of them has had a brand new bus bought for them since deregulation.

(26 Aug 2022, 8:04 am)RMF1254 wrote [ -> ]Shame for the residents of Meadway, Forest Hall, Longbenton and the Matthew Bank area whose only direct bus to the City Centre is the 55. I don’t think can count the 63 as a direct bus from Forest Hall as it goes via Heaton and Byker.

Longbenton has the 52, Matthew Bank has the X7/X8. For the other half of the route, they could easily divert the 52 to go to Killingworth via the 55/53 route. It would arguably offer a better service anyway as it would reconnect the links up to Cramlington which they lost with the 42 cuts. No-one else really loses out, Cramlington/Burradon uses the X7/X8 to Newcastle / Quorum anyway so adding time to the Southern end of the route wouldn't be the end of the world as long as they diverted the 54 to loop FLE.

(26 Aug 2022, 8:28 am)Storx wrote [ -> ]Thank you, wasn't made up bus rumours for once then. Believe it's the first the 57/57A/10/10A/11/12/810/811/442/19/318 or whatever other variation I've missed of them has had a brand new bus bought for them since deregulation.


Longbenton has the 52, Matthew Bank has the X7/X8. For the other half of the route, they could easily divert the 52 to go to Killingworth via the 55/53 route. It would arguably offer a better service anyway as it would reconnect the links up to Cramlington which they lost with the 42 cuts. No-one else really loses out, Cramlington/Burradon uses the X7/X8 to Newcastle / Quorum anyway so adding time to the Southern end of the route wouldn't be the end of the world as long as they diverted the 54 to loop FLE.

Do you mean loop like what the 356/56 used to do

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(26 Aug 2022, 8:04 am)RMF1254 wrote [ -> ]Shame for the residents of Meadway, Forest Hall, Longbenton and the Matthew Bank area whose only direct bus to the City Centre is the 55. I don’t think can count the 63 as a direct bus from Forest Hall as it goes via Heaton and Byker.

Unless its curtailed at FLE

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(25 Aug 2022, 7:57 pm)MurdnunoC wrote [ -> ]Prefer Street Fighter or Mortal Kombat to Tekken though it is a good game.

Shhhh you,i was half asleep lol

(26 Aug 2022, 9:54 am)V514DFT wrote [ -> ]Do you mean loop like what the 356/56 used to do

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Unless its curtailed at FLE

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Shhhh you,i was half asleep lol

I can't link it now as I'm on my phone but it was the 52 taking over the 55 from FLE to the end of Meadway then after there just running the 53 route to Killingworth then back as the 52 route from Killingworth to Cramlington.

Tbh i cant see how that wouldnt work
Another on i was thinking is this
Re-number the 51A to 50 divert it to serve Cross Avenue,Springfield Gardens,Wiltshire Drive,giving those residents back a bus that was lost when the 42 was withdrawn and an improves link to Newcastle for them
Then the 51 do this Haymarket, Matthew Bank, D.S.S Longbenton,FLE, Whitley Road then re-joining its old route from the roundabout outside The Range
52 does your suggestion

Personally I think it’s more likely the 46 is withdrawn completely and the 55 reduced to half hourly would fit in the gap between the 51s. Remotely operating this from Blyth at Whitley Bay wouldn’t be beyond the imagination once Jesmond/Walkergate does close.


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(26 Aug 2022, 5:28 pm)V514DFT wrote [ -> ]Tbh i cant see how that wouldnt work
Another on i was thinking is this
Re-number the 51A to 50  divert it to serve Cross Avenue,Springfield Gardens,Wiltshire Drive,giving those residents back a bus that was lost when the 42 was withdrawn and an improves link to Newcastle for them
Then the 51 do this Haymarket, Matthew Bank, D.S.S Longbenton,FLE, Whitley Road then re-joining its old route from the roundabout outside The Range
52 does your suggestion

I’m not surprised buses were removed from Springfield Gardens because of the number of parked cars, even the minibuses had a problem. Looking at the stops, only the one at Springfield Gardens / Cross Ave junction was really affected by the 42 withdrawal and even that stop is very close to Wiltshire Drive.The other 2 stops are almost on Wiltshire Drive or Station Road.
Removing the 51 from the Coast Rd and Station Road would seem to remove most of its passengers. Recently both the 51 / 51a seem busier as they are picking up more passengers from the new housing on Station Rd. I was on a 51a last week which was full with standing passengers at the bottom of Wiltshire Drive.

- X7 - Same route but every 20 minutes.

- X8 - Withdrawn and replaced by 43/43A.

- X9 - Same route as now from Blyth to Shankhouse then via X10 route to Newcastle. Every 30 minutes.

- X10 - Same route as now from Blyth to Newcastle. Every 30 minutes.

- X11 - Same route as now from Blyth to Newcastle. Every 30 minutes.

- 43 - Same route as now from Morpeth to Cramlington. Then via High Pit, Annitsford and Fern Drive before resuming normal route. Every 30 minutes Newcastle to Cramlington, continuing to Morpeth every 60 minutes. Could additionally serve NSECH depending on timings.

- 43A - Same route as 'old' X9/X13 including Amersham Road. Will operate all stops between Fisher Lane and Newcastle via Seaton Burn and Wide Open. Every 30 minutes Newcastle to Cramlington, continuing to Blyth every 60 minutes.

- 44/45 - Re-instated to every 30 mins each (every 15 combined).

PVRs (before COVID) = 39x:
- X7/X8/X9 - 14x
- X10/X11 - 13x
- 43 - 7x
- 44/45 - 5x

Current PVR (not including temp reductions to 43/44/45*) = 34x:
- X7/X8/X9 - 14x
- X10/X11 - 8x
- 43 - 7x
- 44/45 - 5x
* Note this PVR is reduced by a further 3x if temp reductions to 43/44/45 are taken into account

Suggested PVR = 36x
- X7 - 7x
- X9/X10/X11 - 13x
- 43/43A - 9x
- 44/45 - 7x

Benefits of above changes:
- Even faster journey times from North of Blyth and Bebside to Newcastle.
- 10 minute combined frequency restored > Blyth - Parkside - Cramlington - Newcastle.
- New direct links to NSECH and to nearby new build developments in East Cramlington.
- Easier vehicle allocations and purchasing decisions, with all Blyth to Newcastle 'X' routes streamlined.
* PVR of all Blyth to Newcastle 'X' routes would be 20x, therefore covering a similar size order for what was previously ordered for Ashington.
* 2023 - 20x StreetDeck - X7 & X9/X10/X11
- More reliable service for High Pit, Annitsford and a new direct link to Newcastle restored along Fern Drive.
- Improved frequency for the Seaton Valley.

Drawbacks of above changes:
- Loss of more direct service for Northern Terrace (but still have services 52/53).
- Slightly reduced frequency through Burradon, Camperdown, Cygnet Park and Quorum (but still every 20 minutes).
- Slightly slower service from Eastfields and Beacon Hill to Newcastle.
- Reduced frequency via South Newsham (South Beach) and Eastfields - has been previously reduced during COVID so potentially not well used?

(19 Sep 2022, 8:39 am)L469 YVK wrote [ -> ]- X7 - Same route but every 20 minutes.

- X8 - Withdrawn and replaced by 43/43A.

- X9 - Same route as now from Blyth to Shankhouse then via X10 route to Newcastle. Every 30 minutes.

- X10 - Same route as now from Blyth to Newcastle. Every 30 minutes.

- X11 - Same route as now from Blyth to Newcastle. Every 30 minutes.

- 43 - Same route as now from Morpeth to Cramlington. Then via High Pit, Annitsford and Fern Drive before resuming normal route. Every 30 minutes Newcastle to Cramlington, continuing to Morpeth every 60 minutes. Could additionally serve NSECH depending on timings.

- 43A - Same route as 'old' X9/X13 including Amersham Road. Will operate all stops between Fisher Lane and Newcastle via Seaton Burn and Wide Open. Every 30 minutes Newcastle to Cramlington, continuing to Blyth every 60 minutes.

- 44/45 - Re-instated to every 30 mins each (every 15 combined).

PVRs (before COVID) = 39x:
- X7/X8/X9 - 14x
- X10/X11 - 13x
- 43 - 7x
- 44/45 - 5x

Current PVR (not including temp reductions to 43/44/45*) = 34x:
- X7/X8/X9 - 14x
- X10/X11 - 8x
- 43 - 7x
- 44/45 - 5x
* Note this PVR is reduced by a further 3x if temp reductions to 43/44/45 are taken into account

Suggested PVR = 36x
- X7 - 7x
- X9/X10/X11 - 13x
- 43/43A - 9x
- 44/45 - 7x

Benefits of above changes:
- Even faster journey times from North of Blyth and Bebside to Newcastle.
- 10 minute combined frequency restored > Blyth - Parkside - Cramlington - Newcastle.
- New direct links to NSECH and to nearby new build developments in East Cramlington.
- Easier vehicle allocations and purchasing decisions, with all Blyth to Newcastle 'X' routes streamlined.
* PVR of all Blyth to Newcastle 'X' routes would be 20x, therefore covering a similar size order for what was previously ordered for Ashington.
* 2023 - 20x StreetDeck - X7 & X9/X10/X11
- More reliable service for High Pit, Annitsford and a new direct link to Newcastle restored along Fern Drive.
- Improved frequency for the Seaton Valley.

Drawbacks of above changes:
- Loss of more direct service for Northern Terrace (but still have services 52/53).
- Slightly reduced frequency through Burradon, Camperdown, Cygnet Park and Quorum (but still every 20 minutes).
- Slightly slower service from Eastfields and Beacon Hill to Newcastle.
- Reduced frequency via South Newsham (South Beach) and Eastfields - has been previously reduced during COVID so potentially not well used?

See if I was going to do stuff I think I'd be more radical than that and do something like:

X7 - No Changes
X8 - Do the old 363 route via Fern Drive, extended to Morpeth hourly to replace the 43 extension instead of heading to Blyth.
X9 - No Changes  (when new housing built run through new estates - see below)
X10/X11 - No Changes

42 - Newcastle to Seaton Burn (turn around at roundabout) only, Every 30 Minutes (when new housing is built at Cramlington and roads opened extended to Cramlington - see below)
43 - Dropped to every 30 minutes, partially replaced by X8 via Dudley and extended to Blyth on X8 route instead of Morpeth (when new housing is built at Cramlington and roads opened run via new estates)
44 - Every 30 Minutes
45 - Every 30 Minutes
46 - No Changes

52 - Same route Newcastle to Four Lane Ends, 55 route to Palmersville, 53 route to Killingworth, same route to Cramlington
53 - No Changes
54 - Additionally serve Four Lane Ends
55 - Withdrawn, Meadway section replaced by 52, South Gosforth to Newcastle covered by X7/X8.

1 - Curtailed at Wansbeck Hospital (PVR 3)
2 - No Changes

56 - Cramlington to Cresswell, hourly (PVR 2)

57 - Whitley Bay to Cramlington via Seghill, Annitsford, direct to Manor Walks, hourly (when new housing built run through new estates - see below)
57A - No Change (PVR 3 Combined)

Everything else remain the same.

Benefits:
New Morpeth and Bedlington to Quorum service (X8)
South Beach gets service back to Regent Centre (43)
Seghill gets 30 minute service back to Whitley Bay / Cramlington
Removed duplicate service 55 and serve more areas with 52 restoring Forest Hall to Cramlington links lost with GNE, the time difference isn't much.
Guide Post and Stakeford get direct Wansbeck Hospital service.
Everything else is pretty much the same.

New routes in future:
43/57 - Lime Route
42 - Orange Route
X9 - Pink Route

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