North East Buses

Do GNE management look at this thread often for some inspiration or is this just for crayonistas to throw thoughts out there. I have some genuine suggestions which I think could work.

(11 Jun 2022, 6:02 pm)iMarkeh wrote [ -> ]Do GNE management look at this thread often for some inspiration or is this just for crayonistas to throw thoughts out there. I have some genuine suggestions which I think could work.

Malarkey (i think) had some really good ones, clearly no one looked at them. 

Personally I think there are some great ones in here, but no one looks at them. And many could argue people here have better ideas than the "professionals" in GNE Offices

(11 Jun 2022, 6:02 pm)iMarkeh wrote [ -> ]Do GNE management look at this thread often for some inspiration or is this just for crayonistas to throw thoughts out there. I have some genuine suggestions which I think could work.

Yeah, they look at all sorts on here but have a good chuckle and dismiss any comments out of hand - because they know best. It's been talk of the office at times.
There's a handful of insiders left. But at one point, we had a fair few more.

(11 Jun 2022, 6:15 pm)Unber43 wrote [ -> ]Malarkey (i think) had some really good ones, clearly no one looked at them. 

Personally I think there are some great ones in here, but no one looks at them. And many could argue people here have better ideas than the "professionals" in GNE Offices

Problem is, some of them may be good but there's also some that aren't. There's a lack of taking much in terms of risks here with new routes, at best you get just add ons or slight diversions like the speeding up of the X85 last year or the 21 now running to Brandon. COVID will only further turn away any desire to take risks, not helped that most haven't worked out, about the only ones to survive are the Stagecoach X24 and GNE summer X11.

(11 Jun 2022, 6:53 pm)Jimmi wrote [ -> ]Problem is, some of them may be good but there's also some that aren't. There's a lack of taking much in terms of risks here with new routes, at best you get just add ons or slight diversions like the speeding up of the X85 last year or the 21 now running to Brandon. COVID will only further turn away any desire to take risks, not helped that most haven't worked out, about the only ones to survive are the Stagecoach X24 and GNE summer X11.

I'd argue the lack of 'risk taking' or being innovative is a factor in operators being in the situation they're in.
Adding a few miles on to an existing route may keep the people in suits happy short term, but does nothing when it comes to those changing passenger habits they keep talking about.

(11 Jun 2022, 9:23 pm)Andreos1 wrote [ -> ]I'd argue the lack of 'risk taking' or being innovative is a factor in operators being in the situation they're in.
Adding a few miles on to an existing route may keep the people in suits happy short term, but does nothing when it comes to those changing passenger habits they keep talking about.

I’d agree, we still have routes tailored to the 9-5 market and shopping in town market and although there is a market there….there is more potential and growth outside of that. 

It’s a similar issue to what trains are having, serving a commuter market that is worth less and ignoring a wider leisure market worth a lot more. 

As with trains, the external pressures affecting the sector (recruitment etc) will knock the confidence of passengers. You disappoint a commuter, they’ll try again. You disappoint a leisure traveler, business is lost

(11 Jun 2022, 9:41 pm)Ambassador wrote [ -> ]I’d agree, we still have routes tailored to the 9-5 market and shopping in town market and although there is a market there….there is more potential and growth outside of that. 

It’s a similar issue to what trains are having, serving a commuter market that is worth less and ignoring a wider leisure market worth a lot more. 

As with trains, the external pressures affecting the sector (recruitment etc) will knock the confidence of passengers. You disappoint a commuter, they’ll try again. You disappoint a leisure traveler, business is lost

I disagree with this. There's a leisure market Sat and Sunday and the odd punter in the evening other than that there's nothing.

The problem with buses is they're dead between 9:30am - 3pm'ish, Monday to Friday and then same again 6pm'ish onwards - the majority of their operating time. People don't do leisure during those times so your not fixing the problems and having a Saturday / Sunday only timetable would be confusing as hell.

Regardless what people say there's still a peak time because there's still massive traffic jams every day at the usual spots and these aren't people going to a bingo hall, cinema or shopping at Team Valley. In fact in some places it's worse than it's ever been especially Moor Farm and the Tyne Tunnel. Going down the mugging off a commuter who could buy a annual ticket for roughly £1k a year to chase a leisure user who uses the bus once a week for £7 is down right suicidal.

(11 Jun 2022, 10:17 pm)Storx wrote [ -> ]I disagree with this. There's a leisure market Sat and Sunday and the odd punter in the evening other than that there's nothing.

The problem with buses is they're dead between 9:30am - 3pm'ish, Monday to Friday and then same again 6pm'ish onwards - the majority of their operating time. People don't do leisure during those times so your not fixing the problems and having a Saturday / Sunday only timetable would be confusing as hell.

Regardless what people say there's still a peak time because there's still massive traffic jams every day at the usual spots and these aren't people going to a bingo hall, cinema or shopping at Team Valley. In fact in some places it's worse than it's ever been especially Moor Farm and the Tyne Tunnel. Going down the mugging off a commuter who could buy a annual ticket for roughly £1k a year to chase a leisure user who uses the bus once a week for £7 is down right suicidal.

100% correct. Off peak is mainly shift workers, college students, appointments goers and shoppers during the day. WFHs wouldn't be using the bus between those times as they should be "working". OAPS are simply not returning in the same numbers.

I know we (the royal we) like to think of the North East as this cultural epicentre, but outside of Newcastle & Durham, the night time/leisure economy is truly abysmal. Go to Consett, Jarrow, Ashington, Killingworth, Wallsend, Prudhoe etc after 19:00 and there is literally nothing happening - and those are places with half decent links. I've been to crematoriums with more life. If people don't have a reason to go out, they won't. They can sit in the house and watch Netflix while ordering in an Uber eats! They don't need to travel on public transport to do any of that.

(11 Jun 2022, 10:17 pm)Storx wrote [ -> ]I disagree with this. There's a leisure market Sat and Sunday and the odd punter in the evening other than that there's nothing.

The problem with buses is they're dead between 9:30am - 3pm'ish, Monday to Friday and then same again 6pm'ish onwards - the majority of their operating time. People don't do leisure during those times so your not fixing the problems and having a Saturday / Sunday only timetable would be confusing as hell.

Regardless what people say there's still a peak time because there's still massive traffic jams every day at the usual spots and these aren't people going to a bingo hall, cinema or shopping at Team Valley. In fact in some places it's worse than it's ever been especially Moor Farm and the Tyne Tunnel. Going down the mugging off a commuter who could buy a annual ticket for roughly £1k a year to chase a leisure user who uses the bus once a week for £7 is down right suicidal.

Which seems crazy when you think it's during this period operators push their services at their most frequent.

But to link ambassador back in. Isn't that what he's saying? There needs to be more beyond the 9-5 and it needs to factor in more than the town centre services we see now and have done since the days of the trams?

(11 Jun 2022, 11:14 pm)DeltaMan wrote [ -> ]100% correct. Off peak is mainly shift workers, college students, appointments goers and shoppers during the day. WFHs wouldn't be using the bus between those times as they should be "working". OAPS are simply not returning in the same numbers.

I know we (the royal we) like to think of the North East as this cultural epicentre, but outside of Newcastle & Durham, the night time/leisure economy is truly abysmal. Go to Consett, Jarrow, Ashington, Killingworth, Wallsend, Prudhoe etc after 19:00 and there is literally nothing happening - and those are places with half decent links. I've been to crematoriums with more life. If people don't have a reason to go out, they won't. They can sit in the house and watch Netflix while ordering in an Uber eats! They don't need to travel on public transport to do any of that.

Yeah totally agreed and it's going to get worse with people wanting to stay in. Like I know locally that's not really any leisure and there's no way to make the X7 (Arriva) just to pick a route a leisure route without damaging the 9 - 5's and students.

(11 Jun 2022, 11:18 pm)Andreos1 wrote [ -> ]Which seems crazy when you think it's during this period operators push their services at their most frequent.

But to link ambassador back in. Isn't that what he's saying? There needs to be more beyond the 9-5 and it needs to factor in more than the town centre services we see now and have done since the days of the trams?

I might have misread it but it seemed like he was saying that focusing on the 9 - 5 is a bad idea and instead it should be other areas but to me the 9 - 5 should be priority. It's then what you do around that aswell which needs seriously changes.

Imo they need to get more creative with certain routes. Say the 21 as it's been a route of talk. One idea imo would be to run a board similar to this (times aren't right and are just made up).

21: Leaves Durham 6.20am, arrives Newcastle 7.30am
-- Guaranteed Connection --
X36: Leaves Newcastle 7.45am arrives Cobalt 8.20am
School Bus: 8.40am
Some local service running pensioners to the nearer supermarket or Silverlink
3.20pm - School Bus
3.50pm - Last run back for the local service from Silverlink or wherever taking them home.
4.50pm - X36 Leaves Cobalt
-- Guaranteed Connection --
5.30pm - 21 to Durham
6.40pm - End of Day

It's much better utilisation of that bus imo, there's extra services for the 21 when it's needed, guaranteed connection to Cobalt, the pensioners get to go where they want during dead hours rather than there being too much on the 21 and the school buses are done.

There's plenty areas where it could be done coast road services going to Team Valley in the opposite direction. Buses dropping onto the X66 as there's no need for a 15 minute service at 8am or 6pm and so on.

(12 Jun 2022, 8:29 am)Storx wrote [ -> ]Yeah totally agreed and it's going to get worse with people wanting to stay in. Like I know locally that's not really any leisure and there's no way to make the X7 (Arriva) just to pick a route a leisure route without damaging the 9 - 5's and students.

To be fair, Arriva's Blyth to Newcastle services have always been quite strong and will probably stay that way even with the ABTRL. The X8 needs to go (but picked up in another form).

(12 Jun 2022, 8:29 am)Storx wrote [ -> ]Yeah totally agreed and it's going to get worse with people wanting to stay in. Like I know locally that's not really any leisure and there's no way to make the X7 (Arriva) just to pick a route a leisure route without damaging the 9 - 5's and students.


I might have misread it but it seemed like he was saying that focusing on the 9 - 5 is a bad idea and instead it should be other areas but to me the 9 - 5 should be priority. It's then what you do around that aswell which needs seriously changes.

Imo they need to get more creative with certain routes. Say the 21 as it's been a route of talk. One idea imo would be to run a board similar to this (times aren't right and are just made up).

21: Leaves Durham 6.20am, arrives Newcastle 7.30am
-- Guaranteed Connection --
X36: Leaves Newcastle 7.45am arrives Cobalt 8.20am
School Bus: 8.40am
Some local service running pensioners to the nearer supermarket or Silverlink
3.20pm - School Bus
3.50pm - Last run back for the local service from Silverlink or wherever taking them home.
4.50pm - X36 Leaves Cobalt
-- Guaranteed Connection --
5.30pm - 21 to Durham
6.40pm - End of Day

It's much better utilisation of that bus imo, there's extra services for the 21 when it's needed, guaranteed connection to Cobalt, the pensioners get to go where they want during dead hours rather than there being too much on the 21 and the school buses are done.

There's plenty areas where it could be done coast road services going to Team Valley in the opposite direction. Buses dropping onto the X66 as there's no need for a 15 minute service at 8am or 6pm and so on.

The arrival into Cobalt is too late for any school buses.

Which depot would run it and where would the drivers breaks be?  Costs associated with transport and providing a vehicle would add to in efficiency. 

Would need to be two shifts as too long for one and too inefficient for two.

(12 Jun 2022, 4:40 pm)R838PRG wrote [ -> ]The arrival into Cobalt is too late for any school buses.

Which depot would run it and where would the drivers breaks be?  Costs associated with transport and providing a vehicle would add to in efficiency. 

Would need to be two shifts as too long for one and too inefficient for two.

Ah that wasn't a concrete suggestion just more on the lines of where the services should be imo. It doesn't necessarily have to be that exact timing was just an example. 

Obviously you'd have to iron out shifts etc to get it to work I wasn't really thinking of the technicals when writing it.

Here are couple of suggestions to sort out the mess of the proposed saved services. (Ignore the numbers and branding if you want)

Here are a few suggestions I have come up with for bus service coverage in my town of Washington to be improved and to be fairer. Most of my suggestions are based on creating new variations to existing services as well as some new ones. Will these work? : -

Sunderland District Berries 2, 2A and 3, 3A



2 and 2A- Each reduced to hourly to provide a combined 30 min frequency



(New) 3 - Silksworth - Holycarrside - Leechmere - Grangetown - Sunderland - Hylton Riverside - Castletown - Peel Retail Park - Barmston Vilage Centre - Washington Village - Glebe - Washington Galleries (Hourly)



(New) 3A - Washington Galleries - Oxclose - Blackfell - Parsons - Concord - Sulgrave - Peel Retail Park - Waterview Park - Teal Farm - Castletown - Hylton Riverside - - Sunderland - Grangetown - Leechmere - Holycarrside - Silksworth (Hourly)

Reason for suggestion: - This will allow almost all of the villages in Washington to have at one direct bus to Sunderland per hour Mon - Sat daytimes, for work and leisure etc, as well as helping maintain four buses an hour between Sunderland and Silksworth.



Country Ranger Services 7 and 8



(New) Service 7 - Stanley - Beamish - Grange Villa - Pelton - Chester le Street - Picktree - Rickleton - Harraton - Fatfield Bridge - Penshaw - Hastings Hill - Grindon - Royal Hospital - Sunderland (Hourly)



Service 8 - Stanley - Beamish - Grange Villa - Pelton - Chester le Street - Barley Mow - Ayton - Lambton - Washington Galleries - Biddick - Teal Farm - Waterview Park - Hastings Hill - Grindon - Royal Hospital - Sunderland (Hourly)

Reason for suggestion: - Service 7 willl provide a more direct journey between Stanley and Sunderland. Barley Mow will now have a direct link to Sunderland via revised service 8. This service could be extended to serve Birtley to offer more new links.




Service 50/50A




Service 50 - Durham - Framwellgate Moor - Arnison Centre - Waldridge Park - Chester le Street - Picktree - Rickleton - Harraton - Lambton - Washington Galleries - Concord - Sulgrave - Peel Retail Park - Cherry Blossom Way - Nissan - Boldon - Chichester - South Shields (Hourly)

(New) Service 50A - Durham - Framwellgate Moor - Arnison Centre - Waldridge Park - Chester le Street - Birtley - Portmeads - Portobello - Ayton - Oxclose - Washington Galleries - Concord - Sulgrave - Nissan - Boldon - Chichester - South Shields (Hourly)

Reason for suggestion - On new service 50A ,the old 551 route between Birtley and Washington will be reinstated and offer a second bus per hour (alongside the New Nexus Service 82) between the two places. 50A will offer those in Oxclose a direct bus to Chester-le-Street and Durham, without having to double back to the Galleries to catch a connecting bus.

Little Pinks Services

Service 83/84- Donwell - Concord - Spout Lane - Barmston Village Centre - Brady Square - Biddick - Sainsbury's Car Park - Washington Galleries - Lambton - Ayton - Blackfell Thirlmoor- Armstrong Industrial Estate - Concord - Donwell (Every 30 mins Mon - Sat daytimes - hourly evenings and Sundays)

Services 85/86 - Coach Road Estate - Concord - Wear Industrial Estate - Barmston Waskerley Road - Washington Village - Sainsbury's Car Park - Washington Galleries - Oxclose - Blackfell Knoulberry - Parsons - Concord - Coach Road Estate

(26 Jun 2022, 4:56 pm)Washingtonian wrote [ -> ]Here are a few suggestions I have come up with for bus service coverage in my town of Washington to be improved and to be fairer. Most of my suggestions are based on creating new variations to existing services as well as some new ones. Will these work? : -

Sunderland District Berries 2, 2A and 3, 3A



2 and 2A- Each reduced to hourly to provide a combined 30 min frequency



(New) 3 - Silksworth - Holycarrside - Leechmere - Grangetown - Sunderland - Hylton Riverside - Castletown - Peel Retail Park - Barmston Vilage Centre - Washington Village - Glebe - Washington Galleries (Hourly)



(New) 3A - Washington Galleries - Oxclose - Blackfell - Parsons - Concord - Sulgrave - Peel Retail Park - Waterview Park - Teal Farm - Castletown - Hylton Riverside - - Sunderland - Grangetown - Leechmere - Holycarrside - Silksworth (Hourly)

Reason for suggestion: - This will allow almost all of the villages in Washington to have at one direct bus to Sunderland per hour Mon - Sat daytimes, for work and leisure etc, as well as helping maintain four buses an hour between Sunderland and Silksworth.



Country Ranger Services 7 and 8



(New) Service 7 - Stanley - Beamish - Grange Villa - Pelton - Chester le Street - Picktree - Rickleton - Harraton - Fatfield Bridge - Penshaw - Hastings Hill - Grindon - Royal Hospital - Sunderland (Hourly)



Service 8 - Stanley - Beamish - Grange Villa - Pelton - Chester le Street - Barley Mow - Ayton - Lambton - Washington Galleries - Biddick - Teal Farm - Waterview Park - Hastings Hill - Grindon - Royal Hospital - Sunderland (Hourly)

Reason for suggestion: - Service 7 willl provide a more direct journey between Stanley and Sunderland. Barley Mow will now have a direct link to Sunderland via revised service 8. This service could be extended to serve Birtley to offer more new links.




Service 50/50A




Service 50 - Durham - Framwellgate Moor - Arnison Centre - Waldridge Park - Chester le Street - Picktree - Rickleton - Harraton - Lambton - Washington Galleries - Concord - Sulgrave - Peel Retail Park - Cherry Blossom Way - Nissan - Boldon - Chichester - South Shields (Hourly)

(New) Service 50A - Durham - Framwellgate Moor - Arnison Centre - Waldridge Park - Chester le Street - Birtley - Portmeads - Portobello - Ayton - Oxclose - Washington Galleries - Concord - Sulgrave - Nissan - Boldon - Chichester - South Shields (Hourly)

Reason for suggestion - On new service 50A ,the old 551 route between Birtley and Washington will be reinstated and offer a second bus per hour (alongside the New Nexus Service 82) between the two places. 50A will offer those in Oxclose a direct bus to Chester-le-Street and Durham, without having to double back to the Galleries to catch a connecting bus.

Little Pinks Services

Service 83/84- Donwell - Concord - Spout Lane - Barmston Village Centre - Brady Square - Biddick - Sainsbury's Car Park - Washington Galleries - Lambton - Ayton - Blackfell Thirlmoor- Armstrong Industrial Estate - Concord - Donwell (Every 30 mins Mon - Sat daytimes - hourly evenings and Sundays)

Services 85/86 - Coach Road Estate - Concord - Wear Industrial Estate - Barmston Waskerley Road - Washington Village - Sainsbury's Car Park - Washington Galleries - Oxclose - Blackfell Knoulberry - Parsons - Concord - Coach Road Estate

2/2A etc should just be removed from Silksworth to terminate at Sunderland, with the 42 or 63 being created to cover the old 42 route, with it being either 42/43 or 63/64. every 12 mins, 3 63's, 2 64's (2A)

(26 Jun 2022, 4:59 pm)Unber43 wrote [ -> ]2/2A etc should just be removed from Silksworth to terminate at Sunderland, with the 42 or 63 being created to cover the old 42 route, with it being either 42/43 or 63/64. every 12 mins, 3 63's, 2 64's (2A)

Good olden days 42/43 Redby travel route using double deckers via Leechmere and hollycarside and silky to board inn and onto Washington , with wear buses service 242/243 right in front of Redby services.


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(26 Jun 2022, 4:59 pm)Unber43 wrote [ -> ]2/2A etc should just be removed from Silksworth to terminate at Sunderland, with the 42 or 63 being created to cover the old 42 route, with it being either 42/43 or 63/64. every 12 mins, 3 63's, 2 64's (2A)

Yeah I had thought about this for my suggestion. I doubt there are many passengers who actually travel the whole route from Silksworth to Washington Galleries, so your suggestion for the 42/63 may be better for that section.

(27 Jun 2022, 5:05 pm)Washingtonian wrote [ -> ]Yeah I had thought about this for my suggestion. I doubt there are many passengers who actually travel the whole route from Silksworth to Washington Galleries, so your suggestion for the 42/63 may be better for that section.

Wasn't there some patter about the 2 and 2a maintaining the link between places in parts of Sunderland (like Silksworth) and the hospital?
Not sure if it was a reasonable justification or even if there's much of a demand to go around the world, when the hospital is just down the road. 
But I think it would be difficult to remove without some sort of outcry or replacement imo.

(27 Jun 2022, 5:29 pm)Andreos1 wrote [ -> ]Wasn't there some patter about the 2 and 2a maintaining the link between places in parts of Sunderland (like Silksworth) and the hospital?
Not sure if it was a reasonable justification or even if there's much of a demand to go around the world, when the hospital is just down the road. 
But I think it would be difficult to remove without some sort of outcry or replacement imo.

Yeah I think I recall something like that being mentioned one time. If by some chance my service suggestions for the 2/2A were to be implented it would maintain the link from Silksworth to the Hospital with two buses an hour, and four buses an hour to Sunderland which I think would be fair. I don't mind certain villages having a direct link to certain places but I do find it unfair when its at the expense of other places having little or no service, or having to go around the world in 80 days to get to where they need or want to be. For a long time it has seemed certain villages get what they ask for while others get nothing. For example, I remember a few years ago when the old M2/3 were reduced from every 10 minutes combined to every 15 minutes. I'm sure the people of Lambton and Ayton complained and shortly after GNE ran extra short journeys from The Galleries to Ayton and back.