(19 Jun 2018, 9:46 pm)callum2015 wrote [ -> ]Extending the current 128 service might be an option - extending from its current terminus of Helmsley along the A170 Into Thirsk,then either run direct via A19/Via Northallerton or Via Stokesley into Middlesbrough. Run from Scarborough depot with maybe 1 or 2 buses outstationed at Peterlee to allow earlier journeys from Middlesbrough
I'm not sure if buses are allowed on Sutton Bank. If they are, it would be a heck of a ride!
There is a diversionary route for caravans, but if the bus followed that, it would be half-way back to York.
(20 Jun 2018, 7:09 am)Andreos1 wrote [ -> ]I'm not sure if buses are allowed on Sutton Bank. If they are, it would be a heck of a ride!
There is a diversionary route for caravans, but if the bus followed that, it would be half-way back to York.
Think Arriva currently have a Moorsbus working that goes down Sutton Bank but not up it.
(20 Jun 2018, 7:50 am)Jimmi wrote [ -> ]Think Arriva currently have a Moorsbus working that goes down Sutton Bank but not up it.
https://bustimes.org/services/m4-helmsley-thirsk
Yeah, it doesnt appear to have a return journey up the bank.
Tried to work out what it did on arriving in Thirsk, but nothing obvious jumps out.
That's probably a discussion for another thread
(20 Jun 2018, 11:17 am)Jimmi wrote [ -> ]Heads back to Helmsley (and onto Rievaulx Abbey) as Moorsbus service M5 via Coxwold, Byland Abbey and Ampleforth: https://bustimes.org/services/m5-thirsk-helmsley-2
So back up, but without a load?
Might try and catch a look to see how it does next time I'm over that way.
(20 Jun 2018, 11:28 am)Andreos1 wrote [ -> ]So back up, but without a load?
Might try and catch a look to see how it does next time I'm over that way.
Only goes down Sutton Bank on that one afternoon M4 trip that extends beyond Sutton Bank Visitors Centre to Thirsk. The return journey is a M5 which doesn't go near Sutton Bank.
Would be interesting to see how a Streetlite would fare getting up there but we'll just have to use our imaginations on that one.
(20 Jun 2018, 11:49 am)Jimmi wrote [ -> ]Only goes down Sutton Bank on that one afternoon M4 trip that extends beyond Sutton Bank Visitors Centre to Thirsk. The return journey is a M5 which doesn't go near Sutton Bank.
Would be interesting to see how a Streetlite would fare getting up there but we'll just have to use our imaginations on that one.
No worse than any other bus, if Silent bank is anything to go by. Only the better E400s and pulsars could do that any faster. I'd imagine a pristine solo SR would be fine but the solos in the Belmont fleet are surprisingly bad.
(20 Jun 2018, 11:49 am)Jimmi wrote [ -> ]Only goes down Sutton Bank on that one afternoon M4 trip that extends beyond Sutton Bank Visitors Centre to Thirsk. The return journey is a M5 which doesn't go near Sutton Bank.
Would be interesting to see how a Streetlite would fare getting up there but we'll just have to use our imaginations on that one.
Misread your initial reply.
I think the fact it goes back the long way says it all.
The turning as you go up would surely be too tight, regardless of the incline.
X84: This service is extended from Hexham to Newbrough.
X85: This service is extended to Haltwhistle via A69, it will no longer serve Newbrough. This service will allow connections to services 185, 681.
X83: Newcastle - Newcastle Business Park - Lemington - Throckley - Heddon On The Wall - Corbridge - Hexham - Acomb - Wall - Bellingham.
New service that will combine the 680 to a express service direct to Newcastle. This service will allow new direct links without change. The service will operate hourly between Newcastle and Hexham and every 2 hours to Bellingham.
74A: Hexham - Acomb - Colwell - A68 - West Woodburn - Otterburn - Elsdon - Ponteland - Cowgate - Newcastle. New service which will serve Rural communities and keep them connected with Hexham and Newcastle.
(19 Jun 2018, 6:33 pm)Andreos1 wrote [ -> ]I think the Whitby/Scarborough - Teesside corridor is pretty much boxed off now the X4 and X93 appear sorted.
Not sure there is enough demand all year round or enough interest to offer any competition.
I have to admit, when the EYMS announcement was made, I thought competition on the X93 would be first choice, however on reflection I think GNE bosses may have a good think about it before committing (if it was on the agenda to begin with). My thoughts behind this are presumably the kind of points that would be discussed;
- The X93, over recent years has improved significantly. Journeys tend to be reliable compared to 4 or 5 years ago (as well as they can be for a long distance service) and the kit that tends to run is up to the job. Its not a simple case of providing the basics to gain abstraction due to poor customer confidence.
- Barring the main summer, in which Arriva have just implemented a 20 minute frequency on the X93, there isnt much to pinch from off peak (perhaps summer only competition?).
- GNE Management will remember the OK1 and the retaliation that Arriva swept into almost immediately when that came on stream - eventually suffocating it by means of timetable changes and introduction of the X1. I would not expect Arriva to sit tight and do nothing if EYMS/GNE simply compete like for like on the X93. Whilst obvious passenger benefit would be great, lets not forget these are businesses and their high earners are the ones they will push hard to protect. X93 almost certainly is one of them for Arriva I suspect.
- Arriva are generally not known for pulling the first punch in situations where competition exists or is created - most of the time it intiailly instigates from another bus operator and Arriva tend to be the ones to react, but I think competition with the X93/X4 services would provoke more than a like for like response (perhaps retaliation by means of a direct Teesside to Newcastle non-stop to cream off the X9/X10 or even more X12 up Durham Road for example).
It will be interesting to see what does happen of course, but im not sure GNE bosses will be unlikely to be up for a competitive fight straight away - if at all.
(20 Jun 2018, 9:37 pm)RobinHood wrote [ -> ]I have to admit, when the EYMS announcement was made, I thought competition on the X93 would be first choice, however on reflection I think GNE bosses may have a good think about it before committing (if it was on the agenda to begin with). My thoughts behind this are presumably the kind of points that would be discussed;
- The X93, over recent years has improved significantly. Journeys tend to be reliable compared to 4 or 5 years ago (as well as they can be for a long distance service) and the kit that tends to run is up to the job. Its not a simple case of providing the basics to gain abstraction due to poor customer confidence.
- Barring the main summer, in which Arriva have just implemented a 20 minute frequency on the X93, there isnt much to pinch from off peak (perhaps summer only competition?).
- GNE Management will remember the OK1 and the retaliation that Arriva swept into almost immediately when that came on stream - eventually suffocating it by means of timetable changes and introduction of the X1. I would not expect Arriva to sit tight and do nothing if EYMS/GNE simply compete like for like on the X93. Whilst obvious passenger benefit would be great, lets not forget these are businesses and their high earners are the ones they will push hard to protect. X93 almost certainly is one of them for Arriva I suspect.
- Arriva are generally not known for pulling the first punch in situations where competition exists or is created - most of the time it intiailly instigates from another bus operator and Arriva tend to be the ones to react, but I think competition with the X93/X4 services would provoke more than a like for like response (perhaps retaliation by means of a direct Teesside to Newcastle non-stop to cream off the X9/X10 or even more X12 up Durham Road for example).
It will be interesting to see what does happen of course, but im not sure GNE bosses will be unlikely to be up for a competitive fight straight away - if at all.
Tend to agree with what you have said in this post.
Of course we know what the nature of both the X4 and X93 routes and I can't see much scope at all for it to grow any further.
I can't see demand for public transport increasing beyond what is seen now on those routes.
They must have plateaued out by now - even with that increase between Whitby and Scarborough.
There's been many a time I have used the X4 to/from Whitby. Once you get beyond Staithes on a southbound run, it can get through to the outskirts of Whitby stopping only a handful of times.
Ditto the return from Whitby, where once locals are dropped off at the top of the hill, it tends to be the same few stops served.
The moors-road the X93 uses isn't exactly the highway through a bustling metropolis either.
The corridoor up to Guisbrough is boxed off and would leave little scope for any additional stopping service or limited stop.
Go back those few years you mention and I think the opportunity was there to nip in and offer up some competition.
Pretty sure that time has been and gone. For now anyway.
Too much to invest with no guarantee of a return.
(21 Jun 2018, 10:37 am)Andreos1 wrote [ -> ]Tend to agree with what you have said in this post.
Of course we know what the nature of both the X4 and X93 routes and I can't see much scope at all for it to grow any further.
I can't see demand for public transport increasing beyond what is seen now on those routes.
They must have plateaued out by now - even with that increase between Whitby and Scarborough.
The moors-road the X93 uses isn't exactly the highway through a bustling metropolis either.
The corridoor up to Guisbrough is boxed off and would leave little scope for any additional stopping service or limited stop.
Go back those few years you mention and I think the opportunity was there to nip in and offer up some competition.
Pretty sure that time has been and gone. For now anyway.
Too much to invest with no guarantee of a return.
Middlesbrough - Whitby section of the X93 seems to be busiest on a morning towards Scarborough and back to Middlesbrough in the evening from my observations at least, the busiest section of the X93 seems to be the Whitby - Scarborough stretch and I imagine the fact that EYMS have recently almost completely pulled out of Cloughton and Burniston will only further put Arriva in a better position.
(21 Jun 2018, 12:26 pm)Jimmi wrote [ -> ]Middlesbrough - Whitby section of the X93 seems to be busiest on a morning towards Scarborough and back to Middlesbrough in the evening from my observations at least, the busiest section of the X93 seems to be the Whitby - Scarborough stretch and I imagine the fact that EYMS have recently almost completely pulled out of Cloughton and Burniston will only further put Arriva in a better position.
That 20min frequency being introduced won't make it easy for anyone to muscle in either. Never mind the other section of the route, I think they have that northern tip of Scarborough sewn up.
V7 Kibblesworth - Beamish - Stanley - Anfield Plain - Consett
V8 Chopwell - Blackhall Mill - Hamsterly Hill - Burnopfield - Tanfield - Tantobie - Tanfield Lea - Stanley
Both once hourly each direction
Evening service suggestion for 57/309/310 to streamline frequency on Coast Road and increase frequency up to every 15 mins between Newcastle Haymarket and Battle Hill as well as improving competition with Arriva. The total combined PVR of the 57/58/309/310 would remain at 12 vehicles.
57: Wardley to Newcastle only and interworking with 58 using Citylink Versas.
57A: Newcastle Haymarket to Hadrian Park via High Farm using CC B9s departing Newcastle @ xx:05 and xx:35.
309: Retimed to operate 5 minutes later.
310: Retimed to operate 5 minutes later.
(27 Jul 2018, 11:54 am)L469 YVK wrote [ -> ]Evening service suggestion for 57/309/310 to streamline frequency on Coast Road and increase frequency up to every 15 mins between Newcastle Haymarket and Battle Hill as well as improving competition with Arriva. The total combined PVR of the 57/58/309/310 would remain at 12 vehicles.
57: Wardley to Newcastle only and interworking with 58 using Citylink Versas.
57A: Newcastle Haymarket to Hadrian Park via High Farm using CC B9s departing Newcastle @ xx:05 and xx:35.
309: Retimed to operate 5 minutes later.
310: Retimed to operate 5 minutes later.
I'd also like to add half hourly services on 309. Could operate coaster hybrids but don't know whats more feasible for GNE.
Given the success of the Q3, here's one for the 58 to compete the the 43/44/45 whilst adding additional GNE buses on the Great North Road corridor
- Extended beyond Newcastle every 12 minutes to Cramlington via Regent Centre, Wideopen, Dudley and Southfield Green. Evening buses would run every 30 minutes and Sunday daytime buses would run every 15 minutes.
- Buses towards Cramlington would operate via John Dobson St and Haymarket. Buses towards Heworth would operate via Eldon Square and Pilgrim Street before continuining via normal route.
Q4
Wallsend to Metrocentre
Following Q3 Route to St Peters Basin then operating via Bolam Way towards Byker Metro & Morrisons Shields Road, Continuing Down Byker Bank and refollowing current Q3 route until Haymarket/Eldon Square, Serving Central Station none stop to Metrocentre.
Hopefully pick up people from the East End of Newcastle who want to go to the Metrocentre, rather than using other Stagecoach services and having to change.
You could argue the 11 already does that, however from what I've seen in other comments it takes a while to get there.
(04 Aug 2018, 9:03 pm)Arcticrossy92 wrote [ -> ]Q4
Wallsend to Metrocentre
Following Q3 Route to St Peters Basin then operating via Bolam Way towards Byker Metro & Morrisons Shields Road, Continuing Down Byker Bank and refollowing current Q3 route until Haymarket/Eldon Square, Serving Central Station none stop to Metrocentre.
Hopefully pick up people from the East End of Newcastle who want to go to the Metrocentre, rather than using other Stagecoach services and having to change.
You could argue the 11 already does that, however from what I've seen in other comments it takes a while to get there.
Dunno. To get a Q3 then hop straight onto a 10 or 6 seems easy enough. Not sure it needs to be made anymore direct than that.
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(04 Aug 2018, 10:28 pm)Jamie M wrote [ -> ]Dunno. To get a Q3 then hop straight onto a 10 or 6 seems easy enough. Not sure it needs to be made anymore direct than that.
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Yeah a do see your point, I always think a direct link is better and there isn't any from the East end of Newcastle.
I'm sure years ago Stagecoach ran a service from Walker direct to Ikea, with a brander Mercedes Minibus.