(13 Sep 2022, 2:32 pm)F114TML wrote [ -> ]Currently 2x 2, 2x 2A, 1x 22, 1x 23, 4x 39s, 4x 60, 2x 61; so 16 buses per hour - HOWEVER, that is only true for a few stops (Ocean Road - Vilette Road). The 2 joins at Toll Bar Road, 2A at Grangetown, and the 2, 2A and 39s leave at Vilette Road. Equally, is there much need for Old Durham Road to have 14 bph into Newcastle (18 if you add the X1)? I don't know the area too much but it seems a pretty similar situation to me, yet I don't see many people bringing it up. Thing is, all those services connect Sunderland with somewhere else and it just happens that in most cases, Ryhope Road is the quickest and most convenient route. Having said that, diverting some journeys on the 60 (as a 60A or 62 also going to Murton) via QA Road to the Hospital wouldn't hurt anyone, and frankly a direct bus from Murton/Seaham to the hospital would be very useful. Also the 60 needs to be at least every 12 minutes, it's just too busy otherwise, especially if there's a cancellation.
Might be true from what you've seen but it isn't - there's been a couple of times I've been on a 61 playing leap frog with an arriva bus.
A good option might be the 61A route, but instead of going down Toll Bar Road and driving straight past where anyone lives, direct it down past Asda on Leechmere Road. Quite weird on a night how we just drive past where everybody lives and their nearest options are B&Ms at the bottom of the Toll bar, then after that is the stop after the Hollymere pub.
(13 Sep 2022, 2:32 pm)F114TML wrote [ -> ]Currently 2x 2, 2x 2A, 1x 22, 1x 23, 4x 39s, 4x 60, 2x 61; so 16 buses per hour - HOWEVER, that is only true for a few stops (Ocean Road - Vilette Road). The 2 joins at Toll Bar Road, 2A at Grangetown, and the 2, 2A and 39s leave at Vilette Road. Equally, is there much need for Old Durham Road to have 14 bph into Newcastle (18 if you add the X1)? I don't know the area too much but it seems a pretty similar situation to me, yet I don't see many people bringing it up. Thing is, all those services connect Sunderland with somewhere else and it just happens that in most cases, Ryhope Road is the quickest and most convenient route. Having said that, diverting some journeys on the 60 (as a 60A or 62 also going to Murton) via QA Road to the Hospital wouldn't hurt anyone, and frankly a direct bus from Murton/Seaham to the hospital would be very useful. Also the 60 needs to be at least every 12 minutes, it's just too busy otherwise, especially if there's a cancellation.
I know what your saying and don't disagree per say but nothing works with each other so they're just compete against each other. Old Durham Road is a bad example btw as it has a destination on it (The QE) so there's a point of them.
A good example though would be the Great North Road in Gosforth with the 43/44/45 which is similar to the Seaham services but they all interwork with each other so provide a 7.5 minute (normally) for the core section of the route then split out further out to different places.
If you could get it work you could easily do it with the 60/61/??. Not sure what that other service could be but PVR wise it would be roughly the same. For the majority of the route you'd improve the service from every 12 minutes to 7.5 minutes throughout taking pressure off the 60 and getting needed passengers on the 61 which is clearly struggling. Everything just fights over the top of each other and there's very little connection.
(13 Sep 2022, 4:22 pm)deanmachine wrote [ -> ]A good option might be the 61A route, but instead of going down Toll Bar Road and driving straight past where anyone lives, direct it down past Asda on Leechmere Road. Quite weird on a night how we just drive past where everybody lives and their nearest options are B&Ms at the bottom of the Toll bar, then after that is the stop after the Hollymere pub.
Isn't the 61A subsidised to cover the 12 which doesn't run in the evening by Stagecoach.
(13 Sep 2022, 6:25 pm)Storx wrote [ -> ]I know what your saying and don't disagree per say but nothing works with each other so they're just compete against each other. Old Durham Road is a bad example btw as it has a destination on it (The QE) so there's a point of them.
A good example though would be the Great North Road in Gosforth with the 43/44/45 which is similar to the Seaham services but they all interwork with each other so provide a 7.5 minute (normally) for the core section of the route then split out further out to different places.
If you could get it work you could easily do it with the 60/61/??. Not sure what that other service could be but PVR wise it would be roughly the same. For the majority of the route you'd improve the service from every 12 minutes to 7.5 minutes throughout taking pressure off the 60 and getting needed passengers on the 61 which is clearly struggling. Everything just fights over the top of each other and there's very little connection.
Isn't the 61A subsidised to cover the 12 which doesn't run in the evening by Stagecoach.
61A route would be better than the current 61.
The thing is with the 60 most of the route is only covered by one service, its only when it gets to new Seaham it joins with the 61. Most of the 60 passengers would get on between Parkside & Deneside which is why the 60 is every 12 mins as such a large part of the route is by itself,especially with the 62 gone so most people who would get the 62 from Dawdon/Seaham have moved onto the 60.
(13 Sep 2022, 6:25 pm)Storx wrote [ -> ]Isn't the 61A subsidised to cover the 12 which doesn't run in the evening by Stagecoach.
You'd still think it would actually run past places where people live/work then just flying down the bypass, after going through Ashbrooke and up Strawberry Bank.
The 61A is just the 38C I think
(13 Sep 2022, 6:29 pm)Unber43 wrote [ -> ]61A route would be better than the current 61.
The thing is with the 60 most of the route is only covered by one service, its only when it gets to new Seaham it joins with the 61. Most of the 60 passengers would get on between Parkside & Deneside which is why the 60 is every 12 mins as such a large part of the route is by itself,especially with the 62 gone so most people who would get the 62 from Dawdon/Seaham have moved onto the 60.
Aye can't argue about that but surely it would be fine if you pulled off the Sunderland to Seaham flows onto a more frequent express service so local services aren't been filled by passengers who arguably should be using the X6 instead but it's too infrequent.
I don't know on that one btw.
Not sure I agree with the 61A though as Murton passengers are being punished even further. Personally I'd be looking at the 2, 2A, 39, 39A. Does there really need to be 8 buses an hour along there or could you just try something new.
Say a new loop service like this which takes part of the 2A, 39A, 39B and 33:
https://www.google.com/maps/dir/54.90236...e0!5m1!1e1
It opens a lot of new links up and connects the two supermarkets in South Sunderland and the Royal Hospital without going around the world.
Then maybe you could have the 2 and 39 both every 30 minutes, it's all it needs really. That would reduce a few buses from along there.
(13 Sep 2022, 6:39 pm)deanmachine wrote [ -> ]You'd still think it would actually run past places where people live/work then just flying down the bypass, after going through Ashbrooke and up Strawberry Bank.
Aye can't argue with that to be fair mind. Guess it's what Nexus wants though.
(13 Sep 2022, 6:52 pm)Storx wrote [ -> ]Aye can't argue about that but surely it would be fine if you pulled off the Sunderland to Seaham flows onto a more frequent express service so local services aren't been filled by passengers who arguably should be using the X6 instead but it's too infrequent.
I don't know on that one btw.
Not sure I agree with the 61A though as Murton passengers are being punished even further. Personally I'd be looking at the 2, 2A, 39, 39A. Does there really need to be 8 buses an hour along there or could you just try something new.
Say a new loop service like this which takes part of the 2A, 39A, 39B and 33:
I am pretty sure I suggested a new Sunderland area for the 33/39/2A for it to be loops, here these were my Sunderland suggestions for route reforms the rest of them are on page 124.
2A/2B/2C Sunderland to Washington (every 10 mins combined) (Silver Arrows)
2A - Sunderland - Royal Hospital - Thorney Close - Tay Road - Grindon - Hastings Hill - Washington
2B - Sunderland - Royal Hospital - Hylton Road - Pennywell - Washington
2C - Sunderland - Royal Hospital - Barmston - Washington
X8/8 Country Ranger
8 - Sunderland - Wessington Way - Waterview Park - Washington - Chester-le-Street - Pelton Fell - Stanley (every 30 mins)
X8 - Sunderland - Royal Hospital - Waterview Park - Washington - CLS - Stanley (every 60 mins)
Sunderland-Durham (Prince Bishops & Xlines Prince Bishops)
20 - Sunderland - Gilley Law - Farringdon - East Herrington - A690 - Houghton - Rainton - Durham (every 30 mins)
20A - Sunderland - Tunstall Road - Thornhill - Thorney Close - East Herrington - Houghton - Rainton Bridge - Rainton - Durham - Arnison Centre (every 30 mins)
20B - Sunderland - Hospital - Grindon - A19 - A690 - Houghton - Raintons - Durham - Langley Park (every 30 mins)
X20 Sunderland - A690 - Houghton - Durham - Bowburn Amazon (every 30 mins)
23/24/5/26 Shields Rider
23 - Sunderland - Roker - Whitburn - Horsley Hill - South Shields
24 - Sunderland - Cleadon - South Shields
5 - Jarrow - Felgate - Boldon Asda - Cleadon Village - South Tyneside Hospital - Chichester - South Shields
26 - South Shields - Chichester - South Tyneside Hospital - South Leam - Valley View - Jarrow - Hebburn - Monkton Lane Estate - Lukes Lane Estate
35/36
35 - Houghton - East Herrington - A690 - Royal Hospital - Sunderland - Fulwell - Cleadon - Boldon - Follingsby - Heworth
36 - Houghton - Penshaw - Hylton - Pennywell - Sunderland - Southwick - Castletown - Town End Farm - Follingsby - Heworth
37/38/39 Pennywell - Doxford Park (Doxford Park Clipper)
37 - Sunderland - Millfield - Ford Estate - Pennywell - Springwell - East Herrington - Doxford Park - Hall Farm - Tunstall Bank - Ryhope - Queen Alexandra Road - Sunderland (every 15 mins)
38 - Sunderland - Queen Alexandra Road - Ryhope - Hall Farm - Doxford Park - East Herrington - Springwell - Pennywell - Ford Estate - Millfield -Sunderland (every 15 mins)
39/40 East Sunderland Explorer
39 Sunderland - A690 - Silksworth - Doxford - Farringdon - Thorney - A690 - Hospital - Sunderland (every 20 mins)
40 - Sunderland - Hospital - A690 - Thorney - Farringdon - Doxford - Silksworth - A690 - to Sunderland - Sunderland (every 20 mins)
42/43 Every 12 mins (Simplicity)
42 - Sunderland Park Lane - Grangetown - Silksworth - Hall Farm (3ph)
43 - Sunderland Park Lane - Leechmere Asda - Silksworth (2ph)
55 (Valley Rover)
55 - Sunderland - Doxford Park - Houghton - West Rainton - Low Moorsley - South Hetton (every 30 mins)
56 (CityRider, Xlines CityRider)
56 - Sunderland - High Southwick - Rehouse - Townend Farm - Nissan - Concord - Usworth - Follingsby (continue as the 58 route) reduce the 58 to every 30 mins. - Eldon Square (every 30 mins)
56A - Sunderland - Southwick - Hylton Castle - Hertburn - Donwell - Springwell - QE - Gateshead - Newcastle Eldon Square (Every 30 Mins)
X56 - Sunderland - A690 - Doxford Park - 39B Washington - Follingsby - Heworth - Gateshead - Newcastle (every 30 mins)
60 (Drifter) X60 (Drifter Express) 62 (EastDurham Connect) 65/65 (East Durham Explorer)
60 - Sunderland - Grangetown - Ryhope - New Seaham - Seaham - Dawdon - Parkside (every 12 mins)
X60 Sunderland - Doxford Park - Seaton - Station Road - Deneside - Seaham - Princess Road - Parkside (every 60 mins)
62 - Sunderland - Doxford Park - Seaham - Dawdon - Dalton Park - Murton - Easington - Peterlee (every 60 mins)
65 - Seaham - Station Road - Dalton Park - Hetton - Low Moorsley - Durham (every 30 mins)
65A - Seaham - Deneside - Dalton Park - Murton - Low Moorsley - High Pittington - Sherburn Village - Durham (every 60 mins)
61/61A (Combine every 30 mins)
61/61A - Sunderland - A690 - Queen Alexandra Road - Leechmere Asda - Hollicarside - New Seaham - Murton - Easington - Haswell (61) - Shotton - (61) - South Hetton (61A) - Bracket Hill - Peterlee Bus Station - 61 (209 route) 61A (210 Route).
X1/X2/X3/X4/X5 Combined every 10 mins Xlines Red Arrows
X1 Newcastle - Gateshead - Washington - Houghton - Hetton - Easington Lane (every 30 mins)
X2 Newcastle - Gateshead - Washington - Waterview Park - Houghton - Hetton - Easington Lane - Easington Village - Peterlee - Wingate (every 60 mins)
X3 Newcastle - Gateshead - Washington - Houghton - Seaham - Dalton Park (every 60 mins)
X4 Newcastle - Gateshead - Washington - Houghton Bournmoor - Rainton - Hetton - Easington Lane (every 60 mins)
X5 Newcastle - Gateshead - Washington - Oxclose - Houghton - Hetton - Hartlepool (every 60 mins)
X6/X7 Combined every 15 (Xlines Wear Express)
X6 Sunderland - Seaham - Dalton Park - Peterlee - Shotton - Hartlepool (every 30 mins)
X7 Sunderland - Seaham - Dalton Park - Peterlee - Shotton - Bowburn Amazon - Durham - Chester-le-Street (every 30 mins)
X8 Sunderland - Seaham - Dalton Park - Peterlee - Wingate - Norton - Stockton - Middlesbrough (every 60 mins)
X9/X10/X11 Combine Every 20 Xlines
X9 - Newcastle - Central Station - Gateshead - Heworth - Peterlee - Billingham - Stockton - Middlesbrough
X10 - Newcastle - Central Station - Gateshead - Heworth - Stockton - Middlesbrough - Redcar
X11 - Newcastle - Central Station - Gateshead - Seaham - Dalton Park - Hartlepool - Middlesbrough
Your 61/A suggestion - Why take it along Durham Road and not Chester Road, thus opening links to the hospital? Having said that, Murton passengers may be pushed further away from the 61 by the longer journey time. If it (the current IRL one) did the opposite loop (or there was an opposite loop option), it'd easily compete with the car from most places in Murton. Also how are you suggesting this new 61/A handles the Murton loop?
(13 Sep 2022, 7:16 pm)F114TML wrote [ -> ]Your 61/A suggestion - Why take it along Durham Road and not Chester Road, thus opening links to the hospital? Having said that, Murton passengers may be pushed further away from the 61 by the longer journey time. If it (the current IRL one) did the opposite loop (or there was an opposite loop option), it'd easily compete with the car from most places in Murton. Also how are you suggesting this new 61/A handles the Murton loop?
62 would cover the cenotaph with the 61 going both ways around the top half of murton.
Talking about the 61/65 and reliability issue, I hear that resurfacing works are taking place on the B1285 from Dalton Park into Murton, meaning there’ll be no access to Murton from the East/Seaham. Diversion route will be a lengthy 15 minute tour via Hawthorn, Easington village, South Hetton and Easington Lane to come into Murton from the West/Hetton Le Hole side. 4 days full closure apparently with traffic lights on other days across a fortnight.
I don’t know why there isn’t 3 variations of the Red Arrows at 30 minutes (10 combined)
X1 - Remains as it is to peterlee
X2 - X1 route to penshaw then limited stop along chester road and into park lane
X3 - Old X1 route to dalton park then up the B1285, down station road, up george street and into the harbour.
Would open new direct links to newcastle instead of having to get one bus to get on another then get on the metro and then another bus etc
(15 Sep 2022, 12:13 am)Drifter60 wrote [ -> ]Talking about the 61/65 and reliability issue, I hear that resurfacing works are taking place on the B1285 from Dalton Park into Murton, meaning there’ll be no access to Murton from the East/Seaham. Diversion route will be a lengthy 15 minute tour via Hawthorn, Easington village, South Hetton and Easington Lane to come into Murton from the West/Hetton Le Hole side. 4 days full closure apparently with traffic lights on other days across a fortnight.
As they've moved changeovers for the 65 to Seaham Interchange then Hopefully they'll just bring another EDE branded bus and just take the route from there.
X20 moved to Stand N, and retimed to before July 2022 changes.
58/312
Haymarket (Q3 Stand) - Gateshead - Felling Square, Windy Nook, Whitehills Estate, Leam Lane Estate Heworth, Jarrow , Tyne Tunnel, North Shields, (maybe an extension)
This route would depend on the Tyne Tunnel Nexus Contract GNE winning it, but would also be used for amazon and a possible extension past NS to Murton or Monkseaton.
New Service 4X (Peak Times Only)
Heworth
Wardley
NON STOP
The Galleries
NON STOP
Shiney Row
Bournmoor
Fence Houses
Houghton-Le-Spring
New Service 23 (Hourly)
Chester-Le-Street
Ayton
Lambton
The Galleries
Team Valley
Newcastle
Suggestion for evening 309 & 310 services.
Now that Arriva have decided to nudge the evening 306 & 308 to xx:15 and xx:45 ex Newcastle, GNE could take advantage of this whilst remaining mostly compliant with Cobalt shift times (at least 7 minutes past the hour minimum and up to 30 minutes after) in both directions as well as at least 5 mins layover at Haymarket.
NCL Departures:
18:25 309 Blyth
18:35 310 North Shields
18:45 311 Hadrian Park
18:57 310 Verne Road
19:07 309 Blyth
19:22 311 Hadrian Park
19:37 310 North Shields
19:52 310 Hadrian Park
20:07 309 Blyth
20:37 310 North Shields
21:07 309 Blyth
21:37 310 North Shields
22:12 309 Whitley Bay Town Centre
22:42 310 North Shields
23:12 309 Whitley Bay Town Centre
23:42 310 Verne Road
GNE Park & Rides
X67 - Metrocentre - Newcastle City Centre - Another P&R Side North
X68 - Heworth - Newcastle City Centre
A1 Coal House Roundabout P&R intergrated into the 21 Route (buses every 5 mins Friday/Saturday and School Hoildays, 10 mins Sunday) Every 7 mins other times, every 20 mins evenings
X67 is already covered by the train and numerous existing GNE services. What needs to change at the MetroCentre is the removal of the park and ride ban in the parking terms and conditions.
X68 is covered by the Metro which is faster than driving, park and ride would be more attractive if Gateshead Council scrapped parking charges so nobody has to pay twice...which just makes it the same price as driving into town anyway.
It's bonkers that they're even trying more park and ride sites without getting the other ones functioning properly. Even a park and walk site located on the Gateshead side of the Tyne would be better than the current P&R offerings.
(10 Oct 2022, 6:15 am)omnicity4659 wrote [ -> ]X67 is already covered by the train and numerous existing GNE services. What needs to change at the MetroCentre is the removal of the park and ride ban in the parking terms and conditions.
X68 is covered by the Metro which is faster than driving, park and ride would be more attractive if Gateshead Council scrapped parking charges so nobody has to pay twice...which just makes it the same price as driving into town anyway.
It's bonkers that they're even trying more park and ride sites without getting the other ones functioning properly. Even a park and walk site located on the Gateshead side of the Tyne would be better than the current P&R offerings.
But tbf if you look at Durham P&R thats quite successful, however the 20 stand outside of the Retail Park isn't really that popular where the P&R. I only got the idea cos of how many cars I saw Parked in Metro Coach Park on Saturday, and Yes I know their was a football match on.
(09 Oct 2022, 3:52 pm)Unber43 wrote [ -> ]GNE Park & Rides
X67 - Metrocentre - Newcastle City Centre - Another P&R Side North
X68 - Heworth - Newcastle City Centre
A1 Coal House Roundabout P&R intergrated into the 21 Route (buses every 5 mins Friday/Saturday and School Hoildays, 10 mins Sunday) Every 7 mins other times, every 20 mins evenings
Even in the prosperous days of the late 2010s, the park and ride from MetroCentre failed. I can't see Heworth competing with the Metro for ease/cost.
X50 does ok but that's a targeted market
It will be interesting to see what they do with the Angel P&R - I honestly think it'll be a total failure and can't work if you just divert the 21. Who in their right mind would get out of their car onto a bus to sit in awful Gatesheas traffic for 30 minutes when they can stay in the car, park in town and get there in half the time.