(10 Oct 2022, 8:09 am)Unber43 wrote [ -> ]But tbf if you look at Durham P&R thats quite successful, however the 20 stand outside of the Retail Park isn't really that popular where the P&R. I only got the idea cos of how many cars I saw Parked in Metro Coach Park on Saturday, and Yes I know their was a football match on.
Durham park and ride is successful (only on a weekend I'd say) because you aren't paying twice, the fare is reasonably cheap and it's not a long drawn out journey to get from car park to city centre.
Same goes for York, which happens to be an extremely popular park and ride system at all times. Free parking, pay once on the bus.
We've struggled in Newcastle and Gateshead to have a functioning park and ride bus service...
- Great Park: signposted well from the A1, but poor frequency to Newcastle and long journey times compared to driving.
- Regent Centre: Pay and Display car park via an app/coins which is too tight to fit any medium sized car around. Plenty of buses though.
- Heworth: Pay and Display car park via an app, plenty of choice for services to Newcastle and Gateshead though.
- MetroCentre: Plenty of spare free parking spaces, the facility works on match days, but P&R is currently banned at other times for the main car parks. Reasonable journey times into Newcastle and Gateshead on the existing network.
You then have the other park and rides for the Metro which are underutilised and expensive due to having to pay twice.
There's a huge car park behind Gateshead College which is always empty at weekends. The car park at the Sage is pretty much deserted. Not a single effort has been put into marketing or operating these as park and walk/ride sites.
So there's seven examples of things to improve before even thinking of opening another park and ride, which will probably also be abandoned before long.
(10 Oct 2022, 1:59 pm)omnicity4659 wrote [ -> ]Durham park and ride is successful (only on a weekend I'd say) because you aren't paying twice, the fare is reasonably cheap and it's not a long drawn out journey to get from car park to city centre.
Same goes for York, which happens to be an extremely popular park and ride system at all times. Free parking, pay once on the bus.
We've struggled in Newcastle and Gateshead to have a functioning park and ride bus service...- Great Park: signposted well from the A1, but poor frequency to Newcastle and long journey times compared to driving.
- Regent Centre: Pay and Display car park via an app/coins which is too tight to fit any medium sized car around. Plenty of buses though.
- Heworth: Pay and Display car park via an app, plenty of choice for services to Newcastle and Gateshead though.
- MetroCentre: Plenty of spare free parking spaces, the facility works on match days, but P&R is currently banned at other times for the main car parks. Reasonable journey times into Newcastle and Gateshead on the existing network.
You then have the other park and rides for the Metro which are underutilised and expensive due to having to pay twice.
There's a huge car park behind Gateshead College which is always empty at weekends. The car park at the Sage is pretty much deserted. Not a single effort has been put into marketing or operating these as park and walk/ride sites.
So there's seven examples of things to improve before even thinking of opening another park and ride, which will probably also be abandoned before long.
P&R only works if the city has a lack of parking, its difficult to get into the place or its tourists visiting the place.
P&R will never work for Newcastle imo as it's just a chore. The people who would be using a P&R will be at the Metro Centre or elsewhere and save the hassle.
(10 Oct 2022, 1:59 pm)omnicity4659 wrote [ -> ]Durham park and ride is successful (only on a weekend I'd say) because you aren't paying twice, the fare is reasonably cheap and it's not a long drawn out journey to get from car park to city centre.
Same goes for York, which happens to be an extremely popular park and ride system at all times. Free parking, pay once on the bus.
We've struggled in Newcastle and Gateshead to have a functioning park and ride bus service...- Great Park: signposted well from the A1, but poor frequency to Newcastle and long journey times compared to driving.
- Regent Centre: Pay and Display car park via an app/coins which is too tight to fit any medium sized car around. Plenty of buses though.
- Heworth: Pay and Display car park via an app, plenty of choice for services to Newcastle and Gateshead though.
- MetroCentre: Plenty of spare free parking spaces, the facility works on match days, but P&R is currently banned at other times for the main car parks. Reasonable journey times into Newcastle and Gateshead on the existing network.
You then have the other park and rides for the Metro which are underutilised and expensive due to having to pay twice.
There's a huge car park behind Gateshead College which is always empty at weekends. The car park at the Sage is pretty much deserted. Not a single effort has been put into marketing or operating these as park and walk/ride sites.
So there's seven examples of things to improve before even thinking of opening another park and ride, which will probably also be abandoned before long.
Durham P&R works because it's more convenient, and cheaper than parking in Durham! We always use the P&R if we actually have to go into Durham, and even during the week it seems to get good usage.
You'll struggle to find parking in Durham for less than £2 for the day at all, plus you don't have the faff of driving through Durham (even though it's not that bad)
(10 Oct 2022, 2:12 pm)Storx wrote [ -> ]P&R only works if the city has a lack of parking, its difficult to get into the place or its tourists visiting the place.
P&R will never work for Newcastle imo as it's just a chore. The people who would be using a P&R will be at the Metro Centre or elsewhere and save the hassle.
I would say the main problem with parking in Newcastle is the cost, but that's probably me being tight!
(10 Oct 2022, 2:36 pm)streetdeckfan wrote [ -> ]Durham P&R works because it's more convenient, and cheaper than parking in Durham! We always use the P&R if we actually have to go into Durham, and even during the week it seems to get good usage.
You'll struggle to find parking in Durham for less than £2 for the day at all, plus you don't have the faff of driving through Durham (even though it's not that bad)
I was using the Durham park and ride in the late afternoon and it was dead on both the out and return (last of the day) journeys. A later service might be of benefit.
(10 Oct 2022, 2:43 pm)omnicity4659 wrote [ -> ]I would say the main problem with parking in Newcastle is the cost, but that's probably me being tight!
I was using the Durham park and ride in the late afternoon and it was dead on both the out and return (last of the day) journeys. A later service might be of benefit.
If I'm going into Newcastle, 99% of the time I'm taking the bus. It's too much of a faff figuring out which roads you're allowed down this week!
Which P&R did you use, we usually use Howlands or Sniperly. Howlands seems to get a lot of use by the students
(10 Oct 2022, 2:53 pm)streetdeckfan wrote [ -> ]If I'm going into Newcastle, 99% of the time I'm taking the bus. It's too much of a faff figuring out which roads you're allowed down this week!
Which P&R did you use, we usually use Howlands or Sniperly. Howlands seems to get a lot of use by the students
I'll be one of those car drivers to make the switch to the train when they open the Northumberland Line! Buses from around here are just excessive in price and journey time compared to my current driving and parking setup.
And it was Belmont, as I usually come from the A1(M) or Sunderland.
(10 Oct 2022, 2:43 pm)omnicity4659 wrote [ -> ]I would say the main problem with parking in Newcastle is the cost, but that's probably me being tight!
It's cheap compared to most cities like especially the likes of Edinburgh.
I seen York P&R been mentioned a few times but one thing to note is it's quite clever as it serves secondary purposes.
The Monks Cross line is additionally the express service to the retail park.
The Askham Bar line is additionally an express service to the massive campus opposite the Tesco down there.
The Southern one not sure on its name is the express service to the outlet centre.
So even if no-one used the P&R there's still customers going the opposite way to other places.
(10 Oct 2022, 4:10 pm)Storx wrote [ -> ]It's cheap compared to most cities like especially the likes of Edinburgh.
I seen York P&R been mentioned a few times but one thing to note is it's quite clever as it serves secondary purposes.
The Monks Cross line is additionally the express service to the retail park.
The Askham Bar line is additionally an express service to the massive campus opposite the Tesco down there.
The Southern one not sure on its name is the express service to the outlet centre.
So even if no-one used the P&R there's still customers going the opposite way to other places.
I stayed down in Easingwold on a weekday recently and drove to Rawcliffe Bar P&R, every seat was taken from the P&R and there were crush loadings on the way back all the way to the P&R. I think it was a 5 minute frequency too.
(10 Oct 2022, 4:30 pm)omnicity4659 wrote [ -> ]I stayed down in Easingwold on a weekday recently and drove to Rawcliffe Bar P&R, every seat was taken from the P&R and there were crush loadings on the way back all the way to the P&R. I think it was a 5 minute frequency too.
Aye not surprised, I know Poppleton on the West has been shut since Covid. Not sure whether it's going to ever reopen though which would help it.
(10 Oct 2022, 2:53 pm)streetdeckfan wrote [ -> ] If I'm going into Newcastle, 99% of the time I'm taking the bus. It's too much of a faff figuring out which roads you're allowed down this week!
Which P&R did you use, we usually use Howlands or Sniperly. Howlands seems to get a lot of use by the students
I used to have the same mindset.
Then ticket prices increased, then journey times increased (due to the direct buses being cancelled) and then the later journies ceased to exist.
I dont use the bus now.
(10 Oct 2022, 6:28 pm)Andreos1 wrote [ -> ]I used to have the same mindset.
Then ticket prices increased, then journey times increased (due to the direct buses being cancelled) and then the later journies ceased to exist.
I dont use the bus now.
Prime Example is X21 to West Auckland, the last one should be 8pm, and if needs be on the return tail it at Durham then run it dead.
Another with the X1, the Dalton Park journeys the last one was at 16:31 towards Dalton Park and the first one was 9pm, and really extending it to Dalton Park makes no/little sense when Seaham via Deneside, possibly even upto Dawdon/Parkside is just another 20 mins, and if they are still at 15 mins the PVR should be enough, and extending it atleast along Princess Road (i think) should give back what the 62 lost)
And later services, first one being at say 5:30/6am from Seaham and the final one being say 7pm connect it with the 60 and you've got a great advertisements. Leaflets through the doors of people. Time it hourly hourly with the 61 if possible.
(10 Oct 2022, 7:16 pm)Unber43 wrote [ -> ]Another with the X1, the Dalton Park journeys the last one was at 16:31 towards Dalton Park and the first one was 9pm, and really extending it to Dalton Park makes no/little sense when Seaham via Deneside, possibly even upto Dawdon/Parkside is just another 20 mins, and if they are still at 15 mins the PVR should be enough, and extending it atleast along Princess Road (i think) should give back what the 62 lost)
Why on earth would you take it to parkside? It’s an “express” service that should finish at the harbour leaving an easy route in and out of seaham. Realistically it would be better off going either the X6 route to the harbour or the 65 route. But then that could be also done by timing the X10 and 65 a bit better especially on an evening.
About the parkside thing. Realistically there should be some sort of 60A which in my eyes would take the 61A route to B&M then follow the normal 60 route until new strangford roundabout where it would turn up into dawdon then to the harbour or dalton park if it really needed to. That gives a replacement to the 62.
(10 Oct 2022, 8:07 pm)ALavery wrote [ -> ]Why on earth would you take it to parkside? It’s an “express” service that should finish at the harbour leaving an easy route in and out of seaham. Realistically it would be better off going either the X6 route to the harbour or the 65 route. But then that could be also done by timing the X10 and 65 a bit better especially on an evening.
About the parkside thing. Realistically there should be some sort of 60A which in my eyes would take the 61A route to B&M then follow the normal 60 route until new strangford roundabout where it would turn up into dawdon then to the harbour or dalton park if it really needed to. That gives a replacement to the 62.
X1 to parkside would really be to replace the lost 62 links, aswell as im pretty sure Andreos (sorry if I spelt that wrong) put in a map for older routes to Newcastle so I just thought why not, maybe some 65 can be extended upto Parkside to re-connect people.
Tbf Dalton Park does desperately need better connections, there has been nothing but cuts especially links with the X10.
If there is going to be any 60A, it would need to be changed after New Seaham towards Sunderland possibly hourly via Doxford Park
Parkside - Princess Road - Seaham - Business Parks - ( Possibly Dalton park & murton) - New Seaham - Doxford Park - Sunderland hourly tbf then in peaks it can run with school buses if needed.
What a lot of people in Dawdon moaned about when the 62 was cancelled was the loss of a direct bus to Peterlee and Easington.
None of these suggestions solve that, and short of diverting the X6 it'd have to be a new route.
(11 Oct 2022, 6:30 am)F114TML wrote [ -> ]What a lot of people in Dawdon moaned about when the 62 was cancelled was the loss of a direct bus to Peterlee and Easington.
None of these suggestions solve that, and short of diverting the X6 it'd have to be a new route.
But then that adds say 10 mins either way, and extending it to easington is just creating the 62.
I don't know about you but the X6 has excellent loadings.
We’ve had this discussion before. Parkside has a more than adequate service, every 12 minutes (every 15 mins due to temporary reductions right now) giving 5 buses an hour. Parkside has one way in, one way out it’s only suitable for services terminating there. If you were to extend/ terminate other routes up there it have to be at the expense of some journeys on the 60. But the whole idea of when the 60 was introduced was to give a regular service to Parkside instead of a mismatch of routes/frequencies. Connections can be made at the harbour.
A true Newcastle express from Seaham I think would have to take 1 or 2 routes to be a true express, either via Station Road and Seaton to Houghton then route join the X1 route from there. Or limited stop via Ryhope and Tunstall to Doxford and then A19 to go either up to Heworth or along the A1231 to serve Washington. Going up to Dalton Park then through Murton to Hetton and then along the X1 route wouldn’t be an express service it’d be too slow. The X1 from Dalton Park wasn’t really a Newcastle express, the X10 does that. It was just a new direct link to Houghton and Washington which didn’t and now doesn’t anymore exist.
(11 Oct 2022, 7:54 am)Unber43 wrote [ -> ]But then that adds say 10 mins either way, and extending it to easington is just creating the 62.
I don't know about you but the X6 has excellent loadings.
Which is why I said it'd need to be a new route.
(11 Oct 2022, 8:56 am)Drifter60 wrote [ -> ]We’ve had this discussion before. Parkside has a more than adequate service, every 12 minutes (every 15 mins due to temporary reductions right now) giving 5 buses an hour. Parkside has one way in, one way out it’s only suitable for services terminating there. If you were to extend/ terminate other routes up there it have to be at the expense of some journeys on the 60. But the whole idea of when the 60 was introduced was to give a regular service to Parkside instead of a mismatch of routes/frequencies. Connections can be made at the harbour.
A true Newcastle express from Seaham I think would have to take 1 or 2 routes to be a true express, either via Station Road and Seaton to Houghton then route join the X1 route from there. Or limited stop via Ryhope and Tunstall to Doxford and then A19 to go either up to Heworth or along the A1231 to serve Washington. Going up to Dalton Park then through Murton to Hetton and then along the X1 route wouldn’t be an express service it’d be too slow. The X1 from Dalton Park wasn’t really a Newcastle express, the X10 does that. It was just a new direct link to Houghton and Washington which didn’t and now doesn’t anymore exist.
There's already an express from Seaham it's ran by Class 156's and Class 158's and it's used by 140k people a year* which works out at about 20 people per vehicle which isn't bad.
* not all go to Newcastle
(11 Oct 2022, 9:26 am)Storx wrote [ -> ]There's already an express from Seaham it's ran by Class 156's and Class 158's and it's used by 140k people a year* which works out at about 20 people per vehicle which isn't bad.
* not all go to Newcastle
It’s also quite full by the time it gets to Hartlepool never mind Seaham.
(11 Oct 2022, 9:51 am)col87 wrote [ -> ]It’s also quite full by the time it gets to Hartlepool never mind Seaham.
Yeah agreed, it's just a shame were more obsessed about jamming as many Metro trains as we can between Pelaw and South Hylton which cart around fresh air half the time instead of providing extra trains South towards Middlesbrough.