(13 May 2025, 7:34 am)LVK 404L wrote [ -> ]E300 27631 looks to have joined sister 27632 at Sunderland from Shields.
Replaced at shields with 27158 that entered service Tuesday following repaint
(14 May 2025, 8:23 am)ReDemPTiion wrote [ -> ]There was talk when we were receiving Stocktons 262**’s that we were due some from other depots as well so I do wonder if the 27***’s from Stockton would free them up to move to Slatyford. I work at Slatyford and a few of the controllers did mention other 26***’s coming in from other depots so it could be them.
Yeah that's the sort of thing I was thinking, but not sure why they'd send them to the North West to then send them here after a few months. Mind that said it does seem, at times, that the management don't really have a clue what the plan is either and they're just going on a whim.
(14 May 2025, 4:07 pm)col87 wrote [ -> ]Because quite a few Journeys on the 1 6/7 need full size buses that’s why.
There's barely any difference, like 4 seats or similar. Personally, rather than pissing around rebuilding a depot, if the numbers are high enough they need more capacity I'd just source some deckers from somewhere and drop both routes down to every 15 minutes.
No-one is losing any sleep over a 12 minute frequency vs 15 minute frequency.
(13 May 2025, 1:03 pm)F114TML wrote [ -> ]They're for Bluebird, it's 57003.
001 and 002 have already been through. Presumably they're using Sunderland as a pit stop for tacho/recharge purposes.
Is it definitely 003 ? Just asking because I saw 57002 (SJ74 UPC) on the outskirts of Sheffield today so it maybe heading south for demonstration work, or a visit to a dealer.
(14 May 2025, 6:37 pm)Storx wrote [ -> ]Yeah that's the sort of thing I was thinking, but not sure why they'd send them to the North West to then send them here after a few months. Mind that said it does seem, at times, that the management don't really have a clue what the plan is either and they're just going on a whim.
There's barely any difference, like 4 seats or similar. Personally, rather than pissing around rebuilding a depot, if the numbers are high enough they need more capacity I'd just source some deckers from somewhere and drop both routes down to every 15 minutes.
No-one is losing any sleep over a 12 minute frequency vs 15 minute frequency.
Want to tell that to the passengers in Hartlepool then, we have a bad service as it is half the time without losing more buses and decreasing the frequency further. The double deckers might be nice though and they is always a way around the pit issue, don’t forget it wasnt so long ago that one of the Man 18.220 was going to be a permanent bus in the Hartlepool fleet and Stagecoach manage told the Transport users group just last year that some of Stocktons fleet would transfer to Hartlepool once Stockton went electric, so clearly they was plans either to sort the pit out or ways round it.
Can anybody remember the original route of the 6 in Sunderland? Just going off other people's version it started at Witherwack went over the QA Bridge via Pallion & ended up at Grangetown but can't find any old timetables or even photos that show the route & where it went.
I know some of the original Sunderland routes had included;
5/5A (Docks - City - Gilley Law - Doxford Park)
7 (Sunderland - Newcastle Road - Witherwack)
12 (Sunderland - Barnes - Silksworth) - Was originally every 10 minutes, combined or competed with the 35 to offer up to 12 buses per hour between the two points & then 18 buses per hour with the 13 once at every 10 minutes between Sainsbury's and Sunderland.
18/19 The original circular version of the route that covered (Sunderland - Roker Park - Seaburn - South Bents - Fulwell - Southwick - Pallion - Royal Hospital - Barnes Park - Springwell - Grindon - Thorney Close - Premier Road - Ashbrooke - Grangetown - Sunderland)
22/23/24 - I believe the 22 was the Evening & Sunday variation that went down to Seaburn Camp via Dene Estate. That still happens on the 23s on a Sunday Daytime. The 23 was how it is now & I believe the 24 missed out Dene Estate & instead just operated down to Seaburn after Fulwell.
There's possibly more routes that were originally there too, although those ones are the ones I remember the most...
(14 May 2025, 8:41 pm)S830OFT wrote [ -> ]Can anybody remember the original route of the 6 in Sunderland? Just going off other people's version it started at Witherwack went over the QA Bridge via Pallion & ended up at Grangetown but can't find any old timetables or even photos that show the route & where it went.
I think the 6 was:
Witherwack - Southwick - Pallion - Holburn Road - Springwell Road - Premier Road - Grangetown ASDA - Grangetown
I'm not sure where in Grangetown it terminated.
-----
I remember seeing it pass me on Springwell Road when finishing school.
The 6 and the 18/19 routes were destroyed when they did work on the Queen Alex Bridge.
(14 May 2025, 8:24 pm)col87 wrote [ -> ]Want to tell that to the passengers in Hartlepool then, we have a bad service as it is half the time without losing more buses and decreasing the frequency further. The double deckers might be nice though and they is always a way around the pit issue, don’t forget it wasnt so long ago that one of the Man 18.220 was going to be a permanent bus in the Hartlepool fleet and Stagecoach manage told the Transport users group just last year that some of Stocktons fleet would transfer to Hartlepool once Stockton went electric, so clearly they was plans either to sort the pit out or ways round it.
Depends what buses they are though, there's loads of E200's around which could be displaced aswell. The Stockton plans seem to be changing every other week lately though mind.
Personally though if I was allowed some investment I'd look at upgrading the 62/63 in Newcastle and displace some of the 16 Plate E400MMC's down to Hartlepool for the 1/6/7 with the 6/7 on a reduced frequency to combat the extra costs of running the deckers.
I know it's not direct investment for Hartlepool but the 62/63 would be much easier to convince spreadsheet lovers in an office somewhere over some town routes and would be a decent upgrade as they're a different level of quality over imo pretty awful E200's. It would massively help Slatyford out aswell who's fleet isn't particularly great either who've had barely any investment either.
Seems to have combined with the 18/19 on some of the sections then. I suppose there is only the 99 that retains that link from Grangetown to Pallion without travelling via the City Centre.
I think with all the changes over the years, whether an on-demand bus alike TeesFlex would have taken off in Sunderland, with ways to avoid using 2 buses or indeed sometimes three buses for a journey. In addition to benefit some areas that only get one bus an hour.
The 594 for instance from observations seems to be a lot less used than when it was the 592 (that's from seeing passenger numbers from both operators). For some commuters a journey to & from work was 15 minutes if they lived at Hylton Castle, direct down the A19, whereas now it's 40 minutes now with only one journey each way. That's not very appealing if someone has to stay back at work or may want to leave one hour earlier for example & there isn't really many buses serving the International outside of peak time, which is likely another factor of why most people still go to work in their cars...
The 6 actually went from central bus station to grangetown then to witherwack via the route mentioned. Weird as I thought about it whilst driving along Holborn road the other day
(14 May 2025, 8:41 pm)S830OFT wrote [ -> ]Can anybody remember the original route of the 6 in Sunderland? Just going off other people's version it started at Witherwack went over the QA Bridge via Pallion & ended up at Grangetown but can't find any old timetables or even photos that show the route & where it went.
I know some of the original Sunderland routes had included;
5/5A (Docks - City - Gilley Law - Doxford Park)
7 (Sunderland - Newcastle Road - Witherwack)
12 (Sunderland - Barnes - Silksworth) - Was originally every 10 minutes, combined or competed with the 35 to offer up to 12 buses per hour between the two points & then 18 buses per hour with the 13 once at every 10 minutes between Sainsbury's and Sunderland.
18/19 The original circular version of the route that covered (Sunderland - Roker Park - Seaburn - South Bents - Fulwell - Southwick - Pallion - Royal Hospital - Barnes Park - Springwell - Grindon - Thorney Close - Premier Road - Ashbrooke - Grangetown - Sunderland)
22/23/24 - I believe the 22 was the Evening & Sunday variation that went down to Seaburn Camp via Dene Estate. That still happens on the 23s on a Sunday Daytime. The 23 was how it is now & I believe the 24 missed out Dene Estate & instead just operated down to Seaburn after Fulwell.
There's possibly more routes that were originally there too, although those ones are the ones I remember the most...
There have been multiple route 5's. The original was City Centre to Red House. A few other routes I remember:
2 - The current 3 route, when the original 3 terminated at Gilley Law and served Plains Farm
9/9A - Ran alongside the 8 to South Hylton
14/14A - Docks - City - Helmsdale Road via High Barnes. Was outsourced to Redby in the late 90s
15 - Ran alongside the 16 to Hastings Hill
17 - A minibus service to Seaburn via Roker
27/28/29 - The northern sections of the current 3 and 13
104 - the current 4 route, the original 4 terminated at Farringdon
139/140 - Circular routes jointly operated by Go North East
I remember at one point every number between 2 and 29 was in use. There has never been a route 1 in Sunderland post deregulation.
(14 May 2025, 10:10 pm)GrahamD83 wrote [ -> ]There have been multiple route 5's. The original was City Centre to Red House. A few other routes I remember:
2 - The current 3 route, when the original 3 terminated at Gilley Law and served Plains Farm
9/9A - Ran alongside the 8 to South Hylton
14/14A - Docks - City - Helmsdale Road via High Barnes. Was outsourced to Redby in the late 90s
15 - Ran alongside the 16 to Hastings Hill
17 - A minibus service to Seaburn via Roker
27/28/29 - The northern sections of the current 3 and 13
104 - the current 4 route, the original 4 terminated at Farringdon
139/140 - Circular routes jointly operated by Go North East
I remember at one point every number between 2 and 29 was in use. There has never been a route 1 in Sunderland post deregulation.
Stagecoach have butchered the Sunderland network since 2005. I have quite a few old route maps from 1990s and the difference to the present is stark.
A late 90s version of the 5 saw it run from Doxford Park to Boldon Asda using Mercedes minibuses.
There was also the 31, Doxford Park to Interchange via Sainsburys in Silksworth and the back roads of Ashbrooke.
(14 May 2025, 7:35 pm)N391OTY wrote [ -> ]Is it definitely 003 ? Just asking because I saw 57002 (SJ74 UPC) on the outskirts of Sheffield today so it maybe heading south for demonstration work, or a visit to a dealer.
I assume so, 003 was here last week.
31 was a great route and very handy. There was also a 32 at one point
service 6 off memory went. Witherwack Carley hill (hannaman court area) into southwick green. over the QA bridge and when Pallion Retail Park first opened used that stop outside iceland) up to St lukes church right all the way up st lukes Road to Front road and went all the way along to leechmere asda down to Grangetown bus stops then did corporation road (bottom road past old littlewoods call centre) into town
(14 May 2025, 9:02 pm)Michael wrote [ -> ]I think the 6 was:
Witherwack - Southwick - Pallion - Holburn Road - Springwell Road - Premier Road - Grangetown ASDA - Grangetown
I'm not sure where in Grangetown it terminated.
-----
The 6 didnt go along Premier Road, it operated as you said Witherwack to Springwell Road then down Durham Road to the Barnes, along Queen Alex Road past St Aidans and the Eye Infirmary to Grangetown and then along Corporation Road to CBS. What was until recently the 18A was the last remnant covering the schools at peaks.
It was the 19 toward Grangetown and 18 toward Grindon that operated along Premier Road, back when they were circulars. Mad to think how many options thre were for links back then, bit like the number of services to Roker/Seaburn compared to just the Es really now.
There was a period when it was joined up with the 7 to run as circular type services, connecting I think at Grangetown, this would have been early 2000s.
The 6 was butchered with the closure of the QA bridge then used as excuse to bin off entirely.
In the early Busways years it retained the 106 number as it was not operated commercially by Busways, and the northern terminus was initially Southwick, later extended to Seaburn (by then operated commercially as the 6) and didnt switch to Witherwack until later.
(15 May 2025, 10:47 pm)Hi I stagecoachbusdepot wrote [ -> ]The 6 didnt go along Premier Road, it operated as you said Witherwack to Springwell Road then down Durham Road to the Barnes, along Queen Alex Road past St Aidans and the Eye Infirmary to Grangetown and then along Corporation Road to CBS. What was until recently the 18A was the last remnant covering the schools at peaks.
It was the 19 toward Grangetown and 18 toward Grindon that operated along Premier Road, back when they were circulars. Mad to think how many options thre were for links back then, bit like the number of services to Roker/Seaburn compared to just the Es really now.
There was a period when it was joined up with the 7 to run as circular type services, connecting I think at Grangetown, this would have been early 2000s.
The 6 was butchered with the closure of the QA bridge then used as excuse to bin off entirely.
In the early Busways years it retained the 106 number as it was not operated commercially by Busways, and the northern terminus was initially Southwick, later extended to Seaburn (by then operated commercially as the 6) and didnt switch to Witherwack until later.
It’s shocking how far the Sunderland Stagecoach network has been scaled back over the years. The glory days were defo the PTE years and maybe the first 10 years of privatisation. After that it’s cuts dressed up as rationalisation. Give it another 10 years and there’ll be a rump service.
(14 May 2025, 8:41 pm)S830OFT wrote [ -> ]Can anybody remember the original route of the 6 in Sunderland? Just going off other people's version it started at Witherwack went over the QA Bridge via Pallion & ended up at Grangetown but can't find any old timetables or even photos that show the route & where it went.
(14 May 2025, 9:02 pm)Michael wrote [ -> ]I think the 6 was:
Witherwack - Southwick - Pallion - Holburn Road - Springwell Road - Premier Road - Grangetown ASDA - Grangetown
I'm not sure where in Grangetown it terminated.
-----
I remember seeing it pass me on Springwell Road when finishing school.
The 6 and the 18/19 routes were destroyed when they did work on the Queen Alex Bridge.
(14 May 2025, 9:34 pm)Acky81 wrote [ -> ]The 6 actually went from central bus station to grangetown then to witherwack via the route mentioned. Weird as I thought about it whilst driving along Holborn road the other day
(15 May 2025, 8:56 pm)DaveFromUpNorth wrote [ -> ]service 6 off memory went. Witherwack Carley hill (hannaman court area) into southwick green. over the QA bridge and when Pallion Retail Park first opened used that stop outside iceland) up to St lukes church right all the way up st lukes Road to Front road and went all the way along to leechmere asda down to Grangetown bus stops then did corporation road (bottom road past old littlewoods call centre) into town
(15 May 2025, 10:47 pm)stagecoachbusdepot wrote [ -> ]The 6 didnt go along Premier Road, it operated as you said Witherwack to Springwell Road then down Durham Road to the Barnes, along Queen Alex Road past St Aidans and the Eye Infirmary to Grangetown and then along Corporation Road to CBS. What was until recently the 18A was the last remnant covering the schools at peaks.
There was a period when it was joined up with the 7 to run as circular type services, connecting I think at Grangetown, this would have been early 2000s.
The 6 was butchered with the closure of the QA bridge then used as excuse to bin off entirely.
In the early Busways years it retained the 106 number as it was not operated commercially by Busways, and the northern terminus was initially Southwick, later extended to Seaburn (by then operated commercially as the 6) and didnt switch to Witherwack until later.
Here is a timetable for it, which I got off of the Bygone Era when it worked, and doesn't just come up with an error code
[
attachment=10968]
I’ve had a thought. What if Stagecoach are planning to go fully electric with Slatyford like they’ve done Stockton. We (Slatyford) keep pushing back the date for our Yutongs and I think it’s because they don’t want to have to knock the building down and rebuild it. So the other option is fully electric and take the roof off then the neighbours don’t have to worry about noise. They might be waiting to see how this Yutong Double Decker does at Stockton as they’ll need something like that for the 62/63. Definitely something to think about and could be the way we’re heading it would save them money not having to knock down a building that has been there for decades.
(16 May 2025, 10:34 am)ReDemPTiion wrote [ -> ]I’ve had a thought. What if Stagecoach are planning to go fully electric with Slatyford like they’ve done Stockton. We (Slatyford) keep pushing back the date for our Yutongs and I think it’s because they don’t want to have to knock the building down and rebuild it. So the other option is fully electric and take the roof off then the neighbours don’t have to worry about noise. They might be waiting to see how this Yutong Double Decker does at Stockton as they’ll need something like that for the 62/63. Definitely something to think about and could be the way we’re heading it would save them money not having to knock down a building that has been there for decades.
Can't see it personally, you have to remember that Stagecoach is going to lose the depot soon, so unless NECA wants to fork the money out - what's the point for them. It's probably why Stockton got done as it's the most profitable depot they will definitely have in 5 years time, unless something changes fast.
It's probably the reason why they don't want to spend money on Slatyford as they'll get no return on it.
(16 May 2025, 10:46 am)Storx wrote [ -> ]Can't see it personally, you have to remember that Stagecoach is going to lose the depot soon, so unless NECA wants to fork the money out - what's the point for them. It's probably why Stockton got done as it's the most profitable depot they will definitely have in 5 years time, unless something changes fast.
It's probably the reason why they don't want to spend money on Slatyford as they'll get no return on it.
No guarantee that Stagecoach are going to lose the depot. Yes the buses look to be going into public control but the mayor Kim McGuinness is a Labour mayor and the way things are going I don’t think she’ll be in control after the next election. So really who knows what’s going to happen it’s all up in the air atm.
(16 May 2025, 11:24 am)ReDemPTiion wrote [ -> ]No guarantee that Stagecoach are going to lose the depot. Yes the buses look to be going into public control but the mayor Kim McGuinness is a Labour mayor and the way things are going I don’t think she’ll be in control after the next election. So really who knows what’s going to happen it’s all up in the air atm.
Aye no arguments, but it's not guaranteed they will either, massive risk really.
imo. if NECA are serious about taking over the buses, then they should be the ones investing in the depots for electrification. At the end of the day, they'll be buying them soon enough anyway and it's in their best interests they're prepped for the future with caveats that it has to be kept to a certain standard, or what not.
The same for vehicles, just purchase new vehicles and lease them to the local operators so when they do take over the routes they've already got the vehicles, rather than ending up with a pile of junk which needs replacing anyway. I believe Liverpool have done that with some of the new electrics entering service now to get some investment moving.
Edit:
https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liv...s-31076125 - Article about the Liverpool investment.
73061/65 is currently tracking on LS3.
(14 May 2025, 6:24 am)stagecoachfan wrote [ -> ]It's one of 5 supplied by Alexander Dennis to the "big 5" groups as seed vehicles.
AR/FB/GA/NX/SC74ZEB for Arriva, First, Go-Ahead, National Express (West Midlands) and Stagecoach respectively.
Will it come to Stagecoach Sunderland or is it just for Stockton?
(14 May 2025, 8:41 pm)S830OFT wrote [ -> ]Can anybody remember the original route of the 6 in Sunderland? Just going off other people's version it started at Witherwack went over the QA Bridge via Pallion & ended up at Grangetown but can't find any old timetables or even photos that show the route & where it went.
I know some of the original Sunderland routes had included;
5/5A (Docks - City - Gilley Law - Doxford Park)
7 (Sunderland - Newcastle Road - Witherwack)
12 (Sunderland - Barnes - Silksworth) - Was originally every 10 minutes, combined or competed with the 35 to offer up to 12 buses per hour between the two points & then 18 buses per hour with the 13 once at every 10 minutes between Sainsbury's and Sunderland.
18/19 The original circular version of the route that covered (Sunderland - Roker Park - Seaburn - South Bents - Fulwell - Southwick - Pallion - Royal Hospital - Barnes Park - Springwell - Grindon - Thorney Close - Premier Road - Ashbrooke - Grangetown - Sunderland)
22/23/24 - I believe the 22 was the Evening & Sunday variation that went down to Seaburn Camp via Dene Estate. That still happens on the 23s on a Sunday Daytime. The 23 was how it is now & I believe the 24 missed out Dene Estate & instead just operated down to Seaburn after Fulwell.
There's possibly more routes that were originally there too, although those ones are the ones I remember the most...
There was the 21 too - I think the route was - Thorney Close - Grindon (Greenwood Road) - Chester Road - Central Bus Station
In Thorney close, it did all the small local roads too.
-----------
14/14A - Helmsdale Road - Sunderland - Docks
----
Would help if the Bygone era - actually worked.......
17, as I recall, was Central Bus Station to Seaburn Camp. This followed much of the 18/19 route as far as Seaburn, the difference was between Roker Avenue and Roker Park Road with the 17 going via Ripon Street and Roker Baths Road rather than Harbour View, Roker Terrace, St George's Terrace and Park Parade as per the 18/19.
(17 May 2025, 12:37 pm)DunsBus wrote [ -> ]17, as I recall, was Central Bus Station to Seaburn Camp. This followed much of the 18/19 route as far as Seaburn, the difference was between Roker Avenue and Roker Park Road with the 17 going via Ripon Street and Roker Baths Road rather than Harbour View, Roker Terrace, St George's Terrace and Park Parade as per the 18/19.
Did the 17 not serve Seaburn ( South Bents Estate) behind what was the Bay Hotel just past the old Seaburn Camp Terminus
(17 May 2025, 1:58 pm)Retro Nero wrote [ -> ]Did the 17 not serve Seaburn ( South Bents Estate) behind what was the Bay Hotel just past the old Seaburn Camp Terminus
When stagecoach got their hands on busways , the 17 was withdrawn and then started back up as a circular service adding volume from town-Chester Road-kayl road-Hylton road-town then withdrawn shortly afterwards and registered a new service 17 in front George bell service 125 town to Doxford park which in later life became service 5 for awhile.
Didn’t later in life that the 18/19 was extended to Whitburn from Seaburn to do a circular round Whitburn where the E6 goes, I’m sure it didn’t last long but unknown what year that was. I think it was to add more volume of buses to Sunderland because of the catch a bus 6 service
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
(07 May 2025, 2:42 pm)ReDemPTiion wrote [ -> ]Yes they will be using the Yutong E12’s
Darlington service 16 passes to arriva from June 30th, I know it will be because Stockton is going fully electric but why didn't arriva just take it over when hodgsons lost it
(17 May 2025, 11:57 pm)ross13 wrote [ -> ]Darlington service 16 passes to arriva from June 30th, I know it will be because Stockton is going fully electric but why didn't arriva just take it over when hodgsons lost it
Yeah that would have made more sense especially since Arriva have them smaller E200MMC’s they can use on it
(17 May 2025, 11:57 pm)ross13 wrote [ -> ]Darlington service 16 passes to arriva from June 30th, I know it will be because Stockton is going fully electric but why didn't arriva just take it over when hodgsons lost it
Because at that time Arriva didn’t have the staff or vehicles available to take on existing work, fast forward 10 months and Darlington have the staff to do so and there are minibuses available with in the fleet to transfer to Darlington.