North East Buses

Don’t get me started on that! Apart from the two school runs it carry’s fresh air. I was on Shields Road two E200s one on 22 full and standing and another on 12 similar story then two 18s both less than 10 people on them

(20 Jun 2024, 12:56 pm)Coastliner700 wrote [ -> ]Don’t get me started on that! Apart from the two school runs it carry’s fresh air. I was on Shields Road two E200s one on 22 full and standing and another on 12 similar story then two 18s both less than 10 people on them

Tender specification dictates all 18s must be allocated deckers - the capacity requirement is greater than any single decker. And let's not forget, before anyone whinges about how Newcastle have lost deckers to the other depots - South Shields' pair of E400s are intended for schools, likewise Sunderland's are mainly used on schools (and don't forget Sunderland, as well as running Nexus Scholars, also run 2 Durham County Council school runs - the Deaf Hill to Sedgefield Community College run and the one from Murton to Easington School) and Stockton's trio are used on their Sedgefield College contract as well as school time capacity requirements on local routes.

I am wondering even if full size singles can’t fit over the pits at Hartlepool would the Enviro 400 deckers fit over them, providing some could be cascaded from somewhere then then that could work for the 6/7 and 12 which is apparently still planned to return. I would put a few on the 1 as well especially the peak time Middlesbrough services. That could help massively as am fairly sure the UTC service is supposed to be a full size bus as well.
If not what size are the 64/ 65 plate enviro 300s because they seem a similar to what the manviro 200s where.

(20 Jun 2024, 7:30 pm)col87 wrote [ -> ]I am wondering even if full size singles can’t fit over the pits at Hartlepool would the Enviro 400 deckers fit over them, providing some could be cascaded from somewhere then then that could work for the 6/7 and 12 which is apparently still planned to return.  I would put a few on the 1 as well especially the peak time Middlesbrough services.  That could help massively as am fairly sure the  UTC service is supposed to be a full size bus as well. 
If not what size are the 64/ 65 plate enviro 300s because they seem a similar to what the manviro 200s where.

What length are the pits at hartlepool, if its less than 10.2m even the 400s wouldn't fit because that what wikipedia claims is the minimum length of the model as a whole.

(20 Jun 2024, 12:56 pm)Coastliner700 wrote [ -> ]Don’t get me started on that! Apart from the two school runs it carry’s fresh air. I was on Shields Road two E200s one on 22 full and standing and another on 12 similar story then two 18s both less than 10 people on them

The 18 tender specification changed to accommodate the withdrawal of dedicated school services from Heaton Manor and another school en route.

All three of the PVR hit school finishes, so that's why they're deckers.

(20 Jun 2024, 10:08 pm)omnicity4659 wrote [ -> ]The 18 tender specification changed to accommodate the withdrawal of dedicated school services from Heaton Manor and another school en route.

All three of the PVR hit school finishes, so that's why they're deckers.

It'd be interesting to see if it would be cheaper to run the routes with 3 minibuses with a seperate school bus instead. The deckers are overkill really and since the smaller operators don't really have deckers it's limiting competition.

If and when SNE service 12 returns, will it link the Headland to Seaton? And will it go via West View Road as well? What’s the timeframe? I know this is a lot of questions, but it will be good to have this route back.

(20 Jun 2024, 11:35 pm)Economic505 wrote [ -> ]If and when SNE service 12 returns, will it link the Headland to Seaton? And will it go via West View Road as well? What’s the timeframe? I know this is a lot of questions, but it will be good to have this route back.

It’s supposed to be returning although am waiting for information. As for the pits am not sure although they must be at least  10 if they managed the Bristol RE, Leyland National, Lynx’s, Olympians, Dennis Falcons and Volvo B10s on them.  They have spent the last 16 years with the Manviro 200s on them as well which are not exactly small either.

I would agree E200 would be more than ample for 99% of the time! Sure something more productive than wasting 3 double deckers could be come up with.

(20 Jun 2024, 7:30 pm)col87 wrote [ -> ]I am wondering even if full size singles can’t fit over the pits at Hartlepool would the Enviro 400 deckers fit over them, providing some could be cascaded from somewhere then then that could work for the 6/7 and 12 which is apparently still planned to return.  I would put a few on the 1 as well especially the peak time Middlesbrough services.  That could help massively as am fairly sure the  UTC service is supposed to be a full size bus as well. 
If not what size are the 64/ 65 plate enviro 300s because they seem a similar to what the manviro 200s where.

(20 Jun 2024, 10:08 pm)omnicity4659 wrote [ -> ]The 18 tender specification changed to accommodate the withdrawal of dedicated school services from Heaton Manor and another school en route.

All three of the PVR hit school finishes, so that's why they're deckers.

Heaton Manor have never had a specific scholars service in the recent decade, the 112 and 151 used to be registered to serve the car park for some reason but never actually did. No company would want to take it either, as the students from that school are absolutely ruthless and disrespectful. I know first hand too, I attended the god awful place.

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(09 Jun 2024, 8:39 pm)Storx wrote [ -> ]Yeah thought it was something like that, agreed though. Be interesting to see what replaces them as they really need to go as a matter of urgency really.

Mind I was up near Aberdeen the other week and they had an Enviro 200 and an Enviro 300 on the 35 (Inverness / Elgin to Aberdeen via Banff) which I couldn't think of anything worse, it's bad enough for 20 minutes nevermind hours so seems like the North East isn't the only place struggling.

I've noticed that too. Never been up that area personally and don't know their routes but I get curious and track buses up Scotland and other places and I've noticed their allocations seem to be scattered and single deckers being used on much longer routes which seem like they should be operated by a decker

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(20 Jun 2024, 10:29 am)Aaron21 wrote [ -> ]It would help if Slatyford didn't allocated there decker to absolutely every service. 72 I can understand since it runs of a school 115. But come on. The 10/11/30/31/36 have decekrs on constant for runs that don't need them

Hmm, they're a hit and miss to be fair. 36s sometimes tend to get busy if there's a late/missing 63 along Fenham Hall Drive. Same with the 30/31 along Whickham View aiding missing 38 passengers, and the 30/31/36 all interwork

(20 Jun 2024, 12:56 pm)Coastliner700 wrote [ -> ]Don’t get me started on that! Apart from the two school runs it carry’s fresh air. I was on Shields Road two E200s one on 22 full and standing and another on 12 similar story then two 18s both less than 10 people on them

Actually, the 18 can get pretty busy outside school times. Saturdays especially. Late evening services too with Freeman Hospital staff leaving work. 

You also need to understand, ever since Nexus started paying to run it, they've made deckers a requirement. If Stagecoach still had it commercially, it would probably still have the old allocation (2x E300's and 1x E400). 

It's the 18's timetable we want to be focusing on, rather than the allocation. In order to keep on time, you need to speed and not let a single person on. Especially with slow MMC's being allocated on weekends. Evening and Sundays you only get 28 minutes each way with a 2-3 minute sit at either end, and bare in mind the last two trips from Four Lane Ends are an extra 2 minutes longer having to serve BT Call Centre where nobody gets on (and BT actually fund the 18 to serve the roundabout on the last two trips for their invisible cleaners to get home).

The evening trips, however, should be ran by single deckers. The evening runs are the same driver the entire night, with the driver actually starting from the depot (except weekends, where they change drivers at Byker Metro at around half 7pm), so the evening driver should bring out a single decker.

(21 Jun 2024, 12:21 pm)Lewispark1509 wrote [ -> ]It's the 18's timetable we want to be focusing on, rather than the allocation. In order to keep on time, you need to speed and not let a single person on. Especially with slow MMC's being allocated on weekends. Evening and Sundays you only get 28 minutes each way with a 2-3 minute sit at either end, and bare in mind the last two trips from Four Lane Ends are an extra 2 minutes longer having to serve BT Call Centre where nobody gets on (and BT actually fund the 18 to serve the roundabout on the last two trips for their invisible cleaners to get home).

Checks with it being a Nexus route. 939 was the same (plenty of time to do Team Valley - Waterview Park but when you got there you had to strap jet engines to the bus if you wanted to be at Sunderland on time) and apparently it's the same story on the 594 in the Castletown area (not done that one yet). Ironically though the 99 had way too much time, not sure that's changed.

The 37/38 timetable in evening is awful. Hardly any time what so ever from Cramlington to Whickham View with very tight turn around!

(20 Jun 2024, 10:24 pm)Storx wrote [ -> ]It'd be interesting to see if it would be cheaper to run the routes with 3 minibuses with a seperate school bus instead. The deckers are overkill really and since the smaller operators don't really have deckers it's limiting competition.

Funny you mention that, the 18 (and 19 before its withdrawl) were ran with the Mercedes Minibuses, along with the 16 and 32, then in 2005/2006 darts were put on the 18, then the 20*** buses, then the Electrics from the Q1/Q2, then ALX300's

Yes good old days and whilst maybe a Mercedes minibus isn’t conpletely suitable nowadays an E200 is the most likely allocation with perhaps a decker duping at peak times which, im sure was what it was previously.

I mean personally if it werent for its unique section along Heaton Road, then the 18 wouldnt be needed imo as it pretty much duplicates other services or could be covered by other services
6/7/12/37/38

(21 Jun 2024, 3:37 pm)V514DFT wrote [ -> ]I mean personally if it werent for its unique section along Heaton Road, then the 18 wouldnt be needed imo as it pretty much duplicates other services or could be covered by other services
6/7/12/37/38

Just before my time the minibuses (well I can't remember them on there anyway).

To be fair the best thing they could probably do is merge that and the 6/7 together as one long route. Would give some unique routes from Byker and Heaton through to Gosforth etc.

Sort of a loop around Newcastle.

I have heard it confirmed while they did look in to bringing back the 12 it’s not happening as it does seem as though the budget for Hartlepool is cut again.

Now if the combined authority and new government could fund it remains to be seen but Hartlepool I would say needs investment and new routes as it’s no longer suitable with parts of the town cut off and buses knackered struggling to keep on the road never mind to the timetable as it’s getting more unreliable by the week.

(20 Jun 2024, 11:35 pm)Economic505 wrote [ -> ]If and when SNE service 12 returns, will it link the Headland to Seaton? And will it go via West View Road as well? What’s the timeframe? I know this is a lot of questions, but it will be good to have this route back.

What a shame. Hartlepool is crying out for investment snd improved routes.

(22 Jun 2024, 5:12 am)Economic505 wrote [ -> ]What a shame. Hartlepool is crying out for investment snd improved routes.

Yes they are desperately but it just seems like Stagecoach just don’t care one bit about the town I would rather at this point they sell to someone who is willing to improve the services in the town.

Picture taken of 24121 inside Slatyford depot this month (June 2024) any idea what this is about?

https://www.flickr.com/photos/197146068@...ateposted/

(19 Jun 2024, 12:20 am)Glen1974 wrote [ -> ]Do there need 3 more buses at Stockton depot and are of the some buses off the road than?

(22 Jun 2024, 6:20 pm)ReDemPTiion wrote [ -> ]Picture taken of 24121 inside Slatyford depot this month (June 2024) any idea what this is about?

https://www.flickr.com/photos/197146068@...ateposted/

to me it looks like a NK09 bcoz if u look closely the feet numbers have a tint of blue where as 24121s are black

(21 Jun 2024, 12:38 pm)F114TML wrote [ -> ]Checks with it being a Nexus route. 939 was the same (plenty of time to do Team Valley - Waterview Park but when you got there you had to strap jet engines to the bus if you wanted to be at Sunderland on time) and apparently it's the same story on the 594 in the Castletown area (not done that one yet). Ironically though the 99 had way too much time, not sure that's changed.

I don't think people realise that just because it's a Nexus route, doesn't mean Nexus has drafted the timetable. I'm sure when Arriva/GCT/GNE had the evening runs on the 18, Nexus did draft the timetable (not like it was any better, 10 mins layover at Four Lane Ends and 30 seconds to swing round at Walker), however I do know Stagecoach draft their own timetables, even for Nexus funded routes. The current 317 timetable was drafted by Stagecoach, hence why GNE are constantly late. Stagecoach get told to put their head down and foot down.

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(21 Jun 2024, 12:52 pm)Coastliner700 wrote [ -> ]The 37/38 timetable in evening is awful. Hardly any time what so ever from Cramlington to Whickham View with very tight turn around!

All of my friends at Walkergate say the exact same thing, the bloke who drafts the timetables in the depot doesn't even have a bus licence and has only been driving a car for just over a year, and drafts timetables using Google Maps.

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(21 Jun 2024, 3:37 pm)V514DFT wrote [ -> ]I mean personally if it werent for its unique section along Heaton Road, then the 18 wouldnt be needed imo as it pretty much duplicates other services or could be covered by other services
6/7/12/37/38

Don't diss my 18 lol, it's actually a lifeline for some people. Only east-end bus that stays local, which is what we need. All of east-end buses realistically go in the same direction in a sense, it's nice to be able to get a bus from mine in Walker to Four Lane Ends (where I go everyday) without having to change bus. 

I love buses, but there's nothing worse than having to actually be somewhere and change buses. Especially despise the 62/63

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(24 Jun 2024, 10:21 pm)Lottie332 wrote [ -> ]to me it looks like a NK09 bcoz if u look closely the feet numbers have a tint of blue where as 24121s are black

How on earth can you tell that from that photo lmao. You can only just make out it's a 300.

(21 Jun 2024, 1:45 pm)V514DFT wrote [ -> ]Funny you mention that, the 18 (and 19 before its withdrawl) were ran with the Mercedes Minibuses, along with the 16 and 32, then in 2005/2006 darts were put on the 18, then the 20*** buses, then the Electrics from the Q1/Q2, then ALX300's

I remember the Merc's very well, and the other buses allocated to the 18. (Very vaugly remember the 19 too and how they used to loop, and I'm aware of a peak service 20 which used to serve Chesters Avenue in Longbenton), but I have to question you about the former Quaylinks? Granted I've only lived in Walker for 12 years, but I've lived on the 18 route my whole life, with me living in High Heaton for the first 10 years of my existence.

(22 Jun 2024, 6:20 pm)ReDemPTiion wrote [ -> ]Picture taken of 24121 inside Slatyford depot this month (June 2024) any idea what this is about?

https://www.flickr.com/photos/197146068@...ateposted/

Funnily enough - 24121 is now outside in Stockton depot’s dead row minus an engine.

(25 Jun 2024, 7:27 am)Lewispark1509 wrote [ -> ]I remember the Merc's very well, and the other buses allocated to the 18. (Very vaugly remember the 19 too and how they used to loop, and I'm aware of a peak service 20 which used to serve Chesters Avenue in Longbenton), but I have to question you about the former Quaylinks? Granted I've only lived in Walker for 12 years, but I've lived on the 18 route my whole life, with me living in High Heaton for the first 10 years of my existence.

Basically what happened is when Stagecoach lost the Q1/Q2 is the buses used on those routes had nowhere suitable to go, so they trailled them on the 18 and peak 68 (im guessing at the time the 68 must of ran off of an 18) would of been around Summer 2010ish, anyway they didnt last long on the 18, and were fully withdrawn from service after only just 5 years in service, thats when the the ALX300's took over right up until what is on there now, so about 9-11 years they lasted on there

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(25 Jun 2024, 7:12 am)Lewispark1509 wrote [ -> ]I don't think people realise that just because it's a Nexus route, doesn't mean Nexus has drafted the timetable. I'm sure when Arriva/GCT/GNE had the evening runs on the 18, Nexus did draft the timetable (not like it was any better, 10 mins layover at Four Lane Ends and 30 seconds to swing round at Walker), however I do know Stagecoach draft their own timetables, even for Nexus funded routes. The current 317 timetable was drafted by Stagecoach, hence why GNE are constantly late. Stagecoach get told to put their head down and foot down.

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All of my friends at Walkergate say the exact same thing, the bloke who drafts the timetables in the depot doesn't even have a bus licence and has only been driving a car for just over a year, and drafts timetables using Google Maps.

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Don't diss my 18 lol, it's actually a lifeline for some people. Only east-end bus that stays local, which is what we need. All of east-end buses realistically go in the same direction in a sense, it's nice to be able to get a bus from mine in Walker to Four Lane Ends (where I go everyday) without having to change bus. 

I love buses, but there's nothing worse than having to actually be somewhere and change buses. Especially despise the 62/63

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How on earth can you tell that from that photo lmao. You can only just make out it's a 300.

Dont misunderstand me, i get the 18 is need as Heaton Road is literally the only bus they have, but it could be covered by other routes, the was a 20 and 20A, not sure if it was a peak or if it was a similar route to the 18/19

But it doesn’t warrant 3 empty double decker buses driving around! Maybe reduce it to hourly.

(25 Jun 2024, 9:55 am)Coastliner700 wrote [ -> ]But it doesn’t warrant 3 empty double decker buses driving around! Maybe reduce it to hourly.

Dropping it to hourly would result in the buses sitting around doing nothing for 15 minutes with a PVR 2, it's 45 minutes end to end hence the PVR 3. Doesn't make sense that.

Personally I'd rather see the bus redone so you'd end up with something like:
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Fosswa...?entry=ttu

Which consists of the 18 (Full Route), 342 (Killingworth to Wallsend) and Q3 (St Peter's to Wallsend)

They're all subsidised routes and would open lots of new opportunities in East Newcastle, with destinations where people want to  be (who wants to go to Walker or Benton Square?)

The PVR would be similar to now, maybe one additional bus to serve the areas which are currently hourly (342) but this could be made off scrapping the 37 subsidy on an evening as it's not needed since this route does the Freeman links to Killingworth.

Another option is to extend 6/7 as has been mentioned to cover Heaton Road potentially to Byker Morrisons. You could then cover it the other parts of it as you’ve described. 653 could extend from Freeman via longbenton to FLe & Benton

(25 Jun 2024, 9:15 am)V514DFT wrote [ -> ]Basically what happened is when Stagecoach lost the Q1/Q2 is the buses used on those routes had nowhere suitable to go, so they trailled them on the 18 and peak 68 (im guessing at the time the 68 must of ran off of an 18) would of been around Summer 2010ish, anyway they didnt last long on the 18, and were fully withdrawn from service after only just 5 years in service, thats when the the ALX300's took over right up until what is on there now, so about 9-11 years they lasted on there

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Dont misunderstand me, i get the 18 is need as Heaton Road is literally the only bus they have, but it could be covered by other routes, the was a 20 and 20A, not sure if it was a peak or if it was a similar route to the 18/19

I personally do not remember the 20 myself, but I do remember the 19. However, I went on eBay once to search for old Newcastle timetables, and I came across a one for 18/19/20, seemily going the same direction, and the 20 using Chesters Ave (Longbenton Metro North side). In fact, if you look on the Stagecoach app and go to Longbenton Metro, you can still see there is a marker for a bus stop on Chesters Avenue.

I will have to ask my grandad when I next see him, as he drove for Walkergate up until 2011, and worked since it was Busways at the original Byker Depot.

Based on that information however, and how the 18s and 19s operated at the time, I put two and two together that the 20 was a peak service. I will also have to find the same timetable on eBay, as I never bought it lmao