North East Buses

there has been a leaked internal notification at SNE regarding the electric vehicle orders between Sunderland, slatyford and Stockton, i will see if i can get a hold of it and post it on here

does anyone know if the stagecoach policy of having a spare vehicle to cover for electric vehicles is still in force?

i know when i worked at slatyford it was a stagecoach policy that "non standard fueled" vehicles were meant to have a certain percentage of standard vehicles to cover them incase of issues, i think the ratio was 1 "standard" vehicle for every 5 "non standard" vehicles.

this was back in 2013/2014 and that was when there was alot of new vehicle types were still quite new and in their infancy, i only ask because ive been doing some sums for when the new electric vehicles start arriving.

The screenshot say 40 + 18 where shall the 20 remaining go?

(22 Apr 2024, 4:30 pm)Scottish city buses wrote [ -> ]The screenshot say 40 + 18 where shall the 20 remaining go?

Sunderland: 20 due end of September/October - Yutong

Stockton: 40

Slatyford: 18

= 78

(22 Apr 2024, 3:41 pm)toward6931 wrote [ -> ]does anyone know if the stagecoach policy of having a spare vehicle to cover for electric vehicles is still in force?

i know when i worked at slatyford it was a stagecoach policy that "non standard fueled" vehicles were meant to have a certain percentage of standard vehicles to cover them incase of issues, i think the ratio was 1 "standard" vehicle for every 5 "non standard" vehicles.

this was back in 2013/2014 and that was when there was alot of new vehicle types were still quite new and in their infancy, i only ask because ive been doing some sums for when the new electric vehicles start arriving.

Technology has come on a long way since then, electric buses are generally more reliable than diesel.

I would imagine Stagecoach will order a c12-14% spare vehicle allocation based on PVR of the routes being electrified, with the spares also being electric.


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Also what seems to be the plan for the likes of Hartlepool?

(23 Apr 2024, 12:57 pm)Scottish city buses wrote [ -> ]Also what seems to be the plan for the likes of Hartlepool?

They may end up with most of the Stockton fleet.

Not sure on cascades yet.

(23 Apr 2024, 12:57 pm)Scottish city buses wrote [ -> ]Also what seems to be the plan for the likes of Hartlepool?

i think with a bulk of investment on the money making depots, hartlepool and south shields are likely to receive cascades from them

(23 Apr 2024, 7:39 pm)toward6931 wrote [ -> ]i think with a bulk of investment on the money making depots, hartlepool and south shields are likely to receive cascades from them

Best to get rid of the shoddy 39/6s /7s 

Would be interesting in seeing some darts come back to Hartlepool from SS

(23 Apr 2024, 5:12 pm)Michael wrote [ -> ]They may end up with most of the Stockton fleet.

Not sure on cascades yet.

Unless something changes, the Stockton fleet won't be going to Hartlepool they're too long for the pits. Hence it's all midibuses there.

There had full size singles decker before at hartlepool depot

As mentioned before, those were Volvo B10Ms where the engines were located behind the front axle of the bus (as shown here - https://www.flickr.com/photos/gjm-photog...7043445414) and not at the rear whilst the Leyland Lynxes were just short enough to fit onto the pits, both types were 11 metres long. Most full size single deckers now are 12 metres long or more as operators went for longer vehicles to make up for the seats lost to the wheelchair / buggy bays as 11 metre buses went from easily carrying around 49 seated passengers to 40 seated passengers in the same chassis length.

I think if Stockton "loaned" full size single decks to hartlepool and was responsible for the maintenance of them it would be ok, but is their any need for full size buses at hartlepool?

(24 Apr 2024, 3:29 pm)toward6931 wrote [ -> ]I think if Stockton "loaned" full size single decks to hartlepool and was responsible for the maintenance of them it would be ok, but is their any need for full size buses at hartlepool?

I think it will more likely be the 15/65 plates which will transfer from South Shields to Hartlepool and then most of stocktons fleet which hasn't dropped to bits will go to shields. 
With all the electrics coming we will see the Gas buses, Darts, ALX300's, 27506/7 and most of the Man E200's. Presumably in that order (going by age besides the gas ones)

Saying that I'm not in Hartlepool much but have family there, they keep saying the buses that are there can get packed quickly, my Grandmother in particular went back to Hartlepool on the No1 bus, and summit about the E200s 36/0s their was a bus broke down and 2 buses got to Middlesbrough and 36089 broke down outside of the stands at Middlesbrough and the back e200 had to take about 50 passengers home ??

(23 Apr 2024, 12:57 pm)Scottish city buses wrote [ -> ]Also what seems to be the plan for the likes of Hartlepool?

Once Stockton start getting electric buses the newer buses at Stockton will transfer to Hartlepool.  Am not certain but think the MMCs are similar size to the Manviros so should fit over the pits, the 64 65 plate enviros should just about fit anyway although I suspect the MMCs might remain at Stockton as spares and to cover the 13 and 36 which might be to long for electrics to cover.

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(23 Apr 2024, 9:36 pm)Storx wrote [ -> ]Unless something changes, the Stockton fleet won't be going to Hartlepool they're too long for the pits. Hence it's all midibuses there.

Stagecoach themselves have said this is the plan

(24 Apr 2024, 6:51 pm)Scottish city buses wrote [ -> ]Saying that I'm not in Hartlepool much but have family there, they keep saying the buses that are there can get packed quickly, my Grandmother in particular went back to Hartlepool on the No1 bus, and summit about the E200s 36/0s their was a bus broke down and 2 buses got to Middlesbrough and 36089 broke down outside of the stands at Middlesbrough and the back e200 had to take about 50 passengers home ??

34611 had to be withdrawn yesterday as the speedometer was broke and 34605 apparently broke down at Clavering today.  The 6/7 often gets packed so yes they definitely needs to be full size buses again.  
They three  solutions here for Stagecoach either they improve the pits/build new ones at the existing depot, move to a new and better depot elsewhere in the town, or have Stockton be responsible for the major engineering works on them. but the current plan is Stockton’s buses will be replacing the fleet once they get the electrics so they must be something in place. 
I know they are looking into the Hartlepool network as well and I believe they are looking into bringing at least one former service back on a trail basis.

They could use double deckers at Hartlepool but this would be overkill for some routes and would lead to frequency cuts. Would the people want frequent routes with Midibus sized vehicles or infrequent services with double deckers. Alternatively they could rebuild the maintenance area, but again would the cost of doing so be actually worth it to what the Hartlepool routes bring in.

I had a little play around. If Stagecoach had money to burn and wish to rebuild Hartlepool depot, I would purchase the spare land and build new depot and offices on that (highlighted with yellow for engineering area, and red for offices, with staff parking in the orange area.) I would put a new entrance / exit onto Usworth Road (purple box) which is a quieter road for vehicles to leave the depot and to avoid conflict with traffic with the nearby Aldi. I would also close up the old exit at the North End of the depot. The fuelling and wash area would be moved over to the East side of the depot next to Brenda Road (blue box), whilst space left  from demolition of old buildings and old fuel / wash area would be used for bus parking with vehicles parked in a straight line like at other depots and also parking bays at the North End of the depot for vehicles that are long term off road or awaiting repair.

[attachment=10714]

(24 Apr 2024, 11:28 pm)Rapidsnap wrote [ -> ]I had a little play around. If Stagecoach had money to burn and wish to rebuild Hartlepool depot, I would purchase the spare land and build new depot and offices on that (highlighted with yellow for engineering area, and red for offices, with staff parking in the orange area.) I would put a new entrance / exit onto Usworth Road (purple box) which is a quieter road for vehicles to leave the depot and to avoid conflict with traffic with the nearby Aldi. I would also close up the old exit at the North End of the depot. The fuelling and wash area would be moved over to the East side of the depot next to Brenda Road (blue box), whilst space left  from demolition of old buildings and old fuel / wash area would be used for bus parking with vehicles parked in a straight line like at other depots and also parking bays at the North End of the depot for vehicles that are long term off road or awaiting repair.

While in theory it’s a good idea I don’t think it’s practical. I am not 100 percent certain but that land you highlighted I think is currently used by poolie time exchange who have a warehouse there just out of the picture just behind the depot.  I am actually trying to think where a new depot could be built by no where obvious comes to mind.

(24 Apr 2024, 11:28 pm)Rapidsnap wrote [ -> ]I had a little play around. If Stagecoach had money to burn and wish to rebuild Hartlepool depot, I would purchase the spare land and build new depot and offices on that (highlighted with yellow for engineering area, and red for offices, with staff parking in the orange area.) I would put a new entrance / exit onto Usworth Road (purple box) which is a quieter road for vehicles to leave the depot and to avoid conflict with traffic with the nearby Aldi. I would also close up the old exit at the North End of the depot. The fuelling and wash area would be moved over to the East side of the depot next to Brenda Road (blue box), whilst space left  from demolition of old buildings and old fuel / wash area would be used for bus parking with vehicles parked in a straight line like at other depots and also parking bays at the North End of the depot for vehicles that are long term off road or awaiting repair.

Tbh long term I wouldn't be surprised if they rebuilt Stockton instead and turn Hartlepool into an outstation at the same time

The place looks like it's ready to fall down. Wouldn't be difficult to do as you could just swap over buses at Middlesbrough on the 1/36

(25 Apr 2024, 6:48 am)Storx wrote [ -> ]Tbh long term I wouldn't be surprised if they rebuilt Stockton instead and turn Hartlepool into an outstation at the same time

The place looks like it's ready to fall down. Wouldn't be difficult to do as you could just swap over buses at Middlesbrough on the 1/36

It more or less already is as on Evenings and Weekends control is done from Stockton and any repairs or change of buses will be done by Stockton. Any major repairs are done by Stockton or Sunderland.  It’s been rumoured for years that Hartlepool depot could close but hopefully that won’t be the case although wouldn’t be a surprise if it did happen.

(25 Apr 2024, 7:47 am)col87 wrote [ -> ]It more or less already is as on Evenings and Weekends control is done from Stockton and any repairs or change of buses will be done by Stockton. Any major repairs are done by Stockton or Sunderland.  It’s been rumoured for years that Hartlepool depot could close but hopefully that won’t be the case although wouldn’t be a surprise if it did happen.

Agreed to be honest, same with South Shields aswell, especially since they took the most profitable (E's) routes off them

(25 Apr 2024, 12:32 pm)Storx wrote [ -> ]Agreed to be honest, same with South Shields aswell, especially since they took the most profitable (E's) routes off them

They wanted to close Chi years ago too as its quite expensive to maintain. I think they bought land elsewhere at one point too.

(25 Apr 2024, 1:08 pm)deanmachine wrote [ -> ]They wanted to close Chi years ago too as its quite expensive to maintain. I think they bought land elsewhere at one point too.

Aye remember that being leaked and it all kicking off aswell with drivers. 

I'm surprised it still exists tbh. It looks like the place is ready to fall down aswell so not surprised at the costs. 

Be interesting what they would've done with the network if they did as it's a fair distance to Wheatsheaf for dead running and there's nothing really to interwork with. Can't imagine any of the routes there being the sort of routes that bring a lot of money in.

(24 Apr 2024, 9:52 pm)col87 wrote [ -> ]34611 had to be withdrawn yesterday as the speedometer was broke and 34605 apparently broke down at Clavering today.  The 6/7 often gets packed so yes they definitely needs to be full size buses again.  
They three  solutions here for Stagecoach either they improve the pits/build new ones at the existing depot, move to a new and better depot elsewhere in the town, or have Stockton be responsible for the major engineering works on them. but the current plan is Stockton’s buses will be replacing the fleet once they get the electrics so they must be something in place. 
I know they are looking into the Hartlepool network as well and I believe they are looking into bringing at least one former service back on a trail basis.

Let’s hope it’s a link from the Headland to Seaton , like the old 12. That would link both areas of Hartlepool that attract visitors.

(24 Apr 2024, 9:39 pm)col87 wrote [ -> ]Stagecoach themselves have said this is the plan

(24 Apr 2024, 9:52 pm)col87 wrote [ -> ]34611 had to be withdrawn yesterday as the speedometer was broke and 34605 apparently broke down at Clavering today.  The 6/7 often gets packed so yes they definitely needs to be full size buses again.  
They three  solutions here for Stagecoach either they improve the pits/build new ones at the existing depot, move to a new and better depot elsewhere in the town, or have Stockton be responsible for the major engineering works on them. but the current plan is Stockton’s buses will be replacing the fleet once they get the electrics so they must be something in place. 
I know they are looking into the Hartlepool network as well and I believe they are looking into bringing at least one former service back on a trail basis.

Have you been liasing with Stagecoach? 

(25 Apr 2024, 1:49 pm)Storx wrote [ -> ]Aye remember that being leaked and it all kicking off aswell with drivers. 

I'm surprised it still exists tbh. It looks like the place is ready to fall down aswell so not surprised at the costs. 

Be interesting what they would've done with the network if they did as it's a fair distance to Wheatsheaf for dead running and there's nothing really to interwork with. Can't imagine any of the routes there being the sort of routes that bring a lot of money in.

It would be intresting wouldn't it. My best guess would be frequency reductions and have most things interwork off the E's. The E's would have to be at 20 mins frequencies for this to be viable. However with the arrival of electrics this line of thinking is redundant.
I would also potentially extend the 4 from Downhill into South Tyneside again to interwork with stuff... 
Another way could be that GNE could make/reinstate routes - but we all know this won't happen and don't want this to happen.

(26 Apr 2024, 1:30 am)logidoodah wrote [ -> ]Have you been liasing with Stagecoach? 


It would be intresting wouldn't it. My best guess would be frequency reductions and have most things interwork off the E's. The E's would have to be at 20 mins frequencies for this to be viable. However with the arrival of electrics this line of thinking is redundant.
I would also potentially extend the 4 from Downhill into South Tyneside again to interwork with stuff... 
Another way could be that GNE could make/reinstate routes - but we all know this won't happen and don't want this to happen.

I am on a public transport forum which has regular meetings in which the sub committee have meet with the stagecoach management and that’s what they have said. It’s why they are also looking into the full network in the town and they are hints that Teesflex won’t be around for much longer as they would prefer the money was spent  on proper bus services.

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(25 Apr 2024, 10:10 pm)Economic505 wrote [ -> ]Let’s hope it’s a link from the Headland to Seaton , like the old 12. That would link both areas of Hartlepool that attract visitors.

Funny you think that as that is exactly the service that they are currently looking into bringing back and it was actually a member of the forum doing a detailed plan as well as drivers themselves wanting the 12 back which has got the plans this far.  
I also know that Go North East also had plans to extend the X1 to Hartlepool but those got scrapped in favour of investing in the Durham network instead.

(26 Apr 2024, 1:30 am)logidoodah wrote [ -> ]Have you been liasing with Stagecoach? 


It would be intresting wouldn't it. My best guess would be frequency reductions and have most things interwork off the E's. The E's would have to be at 20 mins frequencies for this to be viable. However with the arrival of electrics this line of thinking is redundant.
I would also potentially extend the 4 from Downhill into South Tyneside again to interwork with stuff... 
Another way could be that GNE could make/reinstate routes - but we all know this won't happen and don't want this to happen.

Yeah agree I can't really see a sensible way of doing it tbh without remote changeovers in South Shields but it's a fair distance, mind not much further than Ashington to Morpeth saying that to be fair. 

GoNorthEast would arguably be in an even worse position since they shut down the depot there too. Deptford / Washington are even further away unless they built a replacement for Washington somewhere as that place is falling down - there's a lot of depots falling down...

(26 Apr 2024, 8:15 am)col87 wrote [ -> ]I am on a public transport forum which has regular meetings in which the sub committee have meet with the stagecoach management and that’s what they have said. It’s why they are also looking into the full network in the town and they are hints that Teesflex won’t be around for much longer as they would prefer the money was spent  on proper bus services.

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Funny you think that as that is exactly the service that they are currently looking into bringing back and it was actually a member of the forum doing a detailed plan as well as drivers themselves wanting the 12 back which has got the plans this far.  
I also know that Go North East also had plans to extend the X1 to Hartlepool but those got scrapped in favour of investing in the Durham network instead.

That would of been a LONG route, that's like the 638.