(05 Sep 2021, 11:34 am)Keeiajs wrote [ -> ]That is a bit stupid, check the dest. I remember I was on the 20 (before the South Sheilds Extension) it was Fab Fifty Six bus, and we got to Durham and the driver had a 15 mins rest, and this person went to the front and ask, where are we, I wanted to go to Newcaslte, and then the driver was like this was the 20. But it's a orange bus. And the driver was like that doesn’t matter. I left the bus so idk what happened.
How is it stupid?
If passengers are being conditioned to identify their bus by the colour of the stripe or tbe paintwork then why should they check the destination? You have already outlined an example how this can happen in tbe real world (including the driver's rather dismissive response), so what exactly is the point of tbe brand if thing that it achieves is different to what the customer expects? If you buy a Cadbury's Caramel, opened the wrapper only to find a Dairy Milk, you wouldn't be best pleased if you rang Cadbury's customer service department and they said "Tough luck, mate. Should have studied the chocolate before biting into it". I've never known McDonald's to put things in different boxes or bags, or to skimp on ingredients, because it's an Evening or Sunday. A brand only works when it is applied across all products and services. If it isn't, then what is the point of brand?
(05 Sep 2021, 1:37 pm)stagecoachbusdepot wrote [ -> ]Of course people should check the destination - that said, GNE have been pretty clear the point of the Sunderland branding is to have everything based aroud colours of specific lines creating what I think Martijn referred to as a tube map style system of colours. Sunday or not, having different colour routes interworking part of the week utterly undermines that concept. Then again, having branded routes interworking during the main weekday period (assuming this is what the X6/38 etc will be doing) makes a mockery of the concept anyway.
Yeah, doesn't really annoy me on a Sunday, but like you said the X6 & 62 interworking with the 38A makes no sense, just call it the Little Purples if they are going to use a sunderland ran route. Its like The LittlePinks being named the WashingtonPinks, then operating a 56 service from Concord to Sunderland.
(05 Sep 2021, 1:48 pm)MurdnunoC wrote [ -> ]How is it stupid?
If passengers are being conditioned to identify their bus by the colour of the stripe or tbe paintwork then why should they check the destination? You have already outlined an example how this can happen in tbe real world (including the driver's rather dismissive response), so what exactly is the point of tbe brand if thing that it achieves is different to what the customer expects? If you buy a Cadbury's Caramel, opened the wrapper only to find a Dairy Milk, you wouldn't be best pleased if you rang Cadbury's customer service department and they said "Tough luck, mate. Should have studied the chocolate before biting into it". I've never known McDonald's to put things in different boxes or bags, or to skimp on ingredients, because it's an Evening or Sunday. A brand only works when it is applied across all products and services. If it isn't, then what is the point of brand?
I really can't believe you compared a chocolate bar something with no indication what is in it other than the wrapper. When a bus has a dest. I would understand if it wasn't working. the 56 Bus was because a 20 had broken down. And McDonalds do put things in the wrong box, but you still get that product. For instance I got a chicken tenders in a chicken legeneds box.
(05 Sep 2021, 1:37 pm)stagecoachbusdepot wrote [ -> ]Of course people should check the destination - that said, GNE have been pretty clear the point of the Sunderland branding is to have everything based aroud colours of specific lines creating what I think Martijn referred to as a tube map style system of colours. Sunday or not, having different colour routes interworking part of the week utterly undermines that concept. Then again, having branded routes interworking during the main weekday period (assuming this is what the X6/38 etc will be doing) makes a mockery of the concept anyway.
There already making a mockery of the Sunderland and District name, with this X6/38A/62 boards, GNE could of least ran the X6 into Sunderland down Burdon Road so passengers can get off closer and into town than getting off at interchange and take a hike all the way to town centre, then the X6 could of continued down to the docks in a circular as what the 38A will do and back up to Park Lane then onto doing service 62 to Peterlee, theres no reason to have the 38A at all.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
(05 Sep 2021, 2:37 pm)cbma06 wrote [ -> ]There already making a mockery of the Sunderland and District name, with this X6/38A/62 boards, GNE could of least ran the X6 into Sunderland down Burdon Road so passengers can get off closer and into town than getting off at interchange and take a hike all the way to town centre, then the X6 could of continued down to the docks in a circular as what the 38A will do and back up to Park Lane then onto doing service 62 to Peterlee, theres no reason to have the 38A at all.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
So how does it work, like X6-38A-62-62-38A-X6-X6-38A-62-62
(05 Sep 2021, 1:52 pm)Keeiajs wrote [ -> ]Yeah, doesn't really annoy me on a Sunday, but like you said the X6 & 62 interworking with the 38A makes no sense, just call it the Little Purples if they are going to use a sunderland ran route. Its like The LittlePinks being named the WashingtonPinks, then operating a 56 service from Concord to Sunderland.
I really can't believe you compared a chocolate bar something with no indication what is in it other than the wrapper. When a bus has a dest. I would understand if it wasn't working. the 56 Bus was because a 20 had broken down. And McDonalds do put things in the wrong box, but you still get that product. For instance I got a chicken tenders in a chicken legeneds box.
Did the person who boarded, have any learning and sight issues?
The sorts of things that would render a blind useless?
(05 Sep 2021, 1:52 pm)Keeiajs wrote [ -> ] . And McDonalds do put things in the wrong box, but you still get that product. For instance I got a chicken tenders in a chicken legeneds box.
Only when completely unavoidable - not because operationally on a Sunday they didn't fancy using Select boxes. It's the equivalent of having to use a different branded bus because the usual ones have too many VOR.
Ultimately this has been going on for a while with certain services, I don't see why you'd brand lots of routes extensively then plan in a significant portion of interworking with inferior stock, or non-route branded vehicles. For example the X30 on evenings - goodbye nice new X-Lines deckers, hello 07-plate Citaros and 56-plate Omnis.
Better Than Ever*
*Monday to Friday, 9-5 only. Sod the evening passengers.
(05 Sep 2021, 3:43 pm)mb134 wrote [ -> ]Only when completely unavoidable - not because operationally on a Sunday they didn't fancy using Select boxes. It's the equivalent of having to use a different branded bus because the usual ones have too many VOR.
Ultimately this has been going on for a while with certain services, I don't see why you'd brand lots of routes extensively then plan in a significant portion of interworking with inferior stock, or non-route branded vehicles. For example the X30 on evenings - goodbye nice new X-Lines deckers, hello 07-plate Citaros and 56-plate Omnis.
Better Than Ever*
*Monday to Friday, 9-5 only. Sod the evening passengers.
Final Statement couldn't be anymore true, maybe on a Saturday aswell.
(05 Sep 2021, 3:51 pm)Keeiajs wrote [ -> ]Final Statement couldn't be anymore true, maybe on a Saturday aswell.
Does that make the rest of the statement any less true?
(05 Sep 2021, 3:43 pm)mb134 wrote [ -> ]Only when completely unavoidable - not because operationally on a Sunday they didn't fancy using Select boxes. It's the equivalent of having to use a different branded bus because the usual ones have too many VOR.
Ultimately this has been going on for a while with certain services, I don't see why you'd brand lots of routes extensively then plan in a significant portion of interworking with inferior stock, or non-route branded vehicles. For example the X30 on evenings - goodbye nice new X-Lines deckers, hello 07-plate Citaros and 56-plate Omnis.
Better Than Ever*
*Monday to Friday, 9-5 only. Sod the evening passengers.
Hasn’t the X30 issue been resolved in this latest round of service changes?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
(05 Sep 2021, 4:00 pm)Dan wrote [ -> ]Hasn’t the X30 issue been resolved in this latest round of service changes?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
No idea - but it shouldn't have been an issue in the first place.
(05 Sep 2021, 4:03 pm)mb134 wrote [ -> ]No idea - but it shouldn't have been an issue in the first place.
Riverside operated the X30 long before it was upgraded to X-lines.
It was always said when Go North East diverted some of its StreetDecks to Oxford Bus Company that a new interworking pattern was planned to make use of the vehicles that remained at Go North East. These new interworking patterns were always going to see the evening X30 become operated by Consett (I think this has been said before too), but we have been in a global pandemic for the past year and a half which has prevented these schedule changes from taking place (due to the conditions of the government support package).
Whilst the plan has actually since evolved over the past 18 months, following local authority feedback, seeing the creation of services like the 47/47A and the curtailment of the X30 at Stanley, the schedule changes have been brought in at the earliest opportunity (and with that, the evening operation of the X30 transferring to Consett) and this issue addressed.
(05 Sep 2021, 4:02 pm)Keeiajs wrote [ -> ]X15's hasn't.
Whilst the point you make is the same, operationally the X15 is slightly different and a more difficult one to resolve. It is one that Go North East are aware of, but at this stage couldn't be resolved. The Venture minibuses are used on a night because minibus drivers (who are paid less than a 'big bus' established driver with more years experience) operate this service. It'd be massively inefficient and add a lot of extra cost to have the X15 operated by X-lines buses on a night, when passenger numbers are considerably lower than they are during the day.
I haven't checked and no doubt someone will quite quickly come back and tell me I'm wrong and this has been missed, but a note should have been put in the timetable to highlight that those journeys aren't operated by an X-lines bus (the least Go North East could do!)
Maybe some of these interworkings are temporary to make use of driver resources available at the moment until they have more drivers. Who knows apart from those on the inside, they hardly going to come out saying you're getting Berries in Seaham because we are short of drivers.
(05 Sep 2021, 4:10 pm)Dan wrote [ -> ]Riverside operated the X30 long before it was upgraded to X-lines.
It was always said when Go North East diverted some of its StreetDecks to Oxford Bus Company that a new interworking pattern was planned to make use of the vehicles that remained at Go North East. These new interworking patterns were always going to see the evening X30 become operated by Consett (I think this has been said before too), but we have been in a global pandemic for the past year and a half which has prevented these schedule changes from taking place (due to the conditions of the government support package).
Whilst the plan has actually since evolved over the past 18 months, following local authority feedback, seeing the creation of services like the 47/47A and the curtailment of the X30 at Stanley, the schedule changes have been brought in at the earliest opportunity (and with that, the evening operation of the X30 transferring to Consett) and this issue addressed.
Not planned to coincide with the introduction of the first X-Lines spec vehicles in late 2019 though?
Regardless of the explanations, I understand that changes due to Covid might have prevented mass rota changes, it seems poor to be promoting evening journeys, X-Lines, etc yet to not make the effort to ensure vehicles matching the advertised spec were available for Riverside to allocate to the evening X30 for the past 18 months.
(05 Sep 2021, 4:10 pm)Dan wrote [ -> ]Whilst the point you make is the same, operationally the X15 is slightly different and a more difficult one to resolve. It is one that Go North East are aware of, but at this stage couldn't be resolved. The Venture minibuses are used on a night because minibus drivers (who are paid less than a 'big bus' established driver with more years experience) operate this service. It'd be massively inefficient and add a lot of extra cost to have the X15 operated by X-lines buses on a night, when passenger numbers are considerably lower than they are during the day.
Sorry, you want to use this service in the evening? Thanks for the money, but you're not quite as good as our daytime passengers so here's a minibus. Also, you don't deserve our more experienced drivers, they're above driving you home.
Maybe a factor in passenger numbers being considerably lower are because of practices like this.
(05 Sep 2021, 4:25 pm)mb134 wrote [ -> ]Not planned to coincide with the introduction of the first X-Lines spec vehicles in late 2019 though?
Regardless of the explanations, I understand that changes due to Covid might have prevented mass rota changes, it seems poor to be promoting evening journeys, X-Lines, etc yet to not make the effort to ensure vehicles matching the advertised spec were available for Riverside to allocate to the evening X30 for the past 18 months.
I agree. Perhaps as I suggested before there could've been a swap or an interworking pattern to allocate E200MMCs on the former evening 6A & X30 journeys. Not just from a spec POV but also cost compared to running an Omnicity or Citaro.
But...............the evening X30 was a relatively new concept and had to be done in the most efficient way. First time a late evening 'X' journey also ran to Stanley. GNE also did the same with the X70 at somepoint allocating StreetLites.
Obviously the evening & Sunday X30/X72 journeys interwork with the X45/X46 thus can now be allocated E400MMCs.
The Sunday X30 journeys since the pandemic and before the recent round of changes used to interwork with the X71 using E400MMCs
(05 Sep 2021, 4:25 pm)mb134 wrote [ -> ]Not planned to coincide with the introduction of the first X-Lines spec vehicles in late 2019 though?
Regardless of the explanations, I understand that changes due to Covid might have prevented mass rota changes, it seems poor to be promoting evening journeys, X-Lines, etc yet to not make the effort to ensure vehicles matching the advertised spec were available for Riverside to allocate to the evening X30 for the past 18 months.
The evening X30 was, on paper, allocated refurbished Mercedes Citaros. In terms of customer spec, these pretty much represent the same advertised specification of an X-lines route. Indeed, over at Deptford, Citaros of the same specification are allocated to the X20... So that's not the right argument to make!
The point remains that it wasn't an X-lines branded bus, however, and this has been addressed at the earliest opportunity. Unless interdeck coaches were allocated to the X30 on an evening, Riverside don't have any other X-lines branded buses available.
(05 Sep 2021, 4:34 pm)Dan wrote [ -> ]The evening X30 was, on paper, allocated refurbished Mercedes Citaros. In terms of customer spec, these pretty much represent the same advertised specification of an X-lines route. Indeed, over at Deptford, Citaros of the same specification are allocated to the X20... So that's not the right argument to make!
The point remains that it wasn't an X-lines branded bus, however, and this has been addressed at the earliest opportunity. Unless interdeck coaches were allocated to the X30 on an evening, Riverside don't have any other X-lines branded buses available.
I think it's exactly the argument to make. Daytime vs evening experience on the X30 for over 18 months has, literally, been night and day. That the journeys were at least some of the time also operated by Scanias and Versas (have they had X-Lines refurbs?), and that the Citaros don't have tables which are advertised clearly on the daytime allocation (and are virtually life expired), is a pretty clear downgrade to me.
(05 Sep 2021, 4:49 pm)mb134 wrote [ -> ]I think it's exactly the argument to make. Daytime vs evening experience on the X30 for over 18 months has, literally, been night and day. That the journeys were at least some of the time also operated by Scanias and Versas (have they had X-Lines refurbs?), and that the Citaros don't have tables which are advertised clearly on the daytime allocation (and are virtually life expired), is a pretty clear downgrade to me.
I think we're just going round in circles now...
They weren't ever intended to be allocated Scania OmniCitys or Optare Versas, always Citaros (to maintain advertised customer specification - Wi-Fi, USB charging points and next stop announcements). As I say, this has been addressed at the very earliest opportunity (and was always intended to be, as there's no denying that the Citaros 'feel' a lot worse than a brand new ADL Enviro400).