North East Buses

And the 65 needs to be promoted well. People will be Christmas shopping soon and a twice hourly and sunday service to dalton park will be a draw (we've got no shops left in Durham!)

(05 Sep 2021, 10:15 pm)BusLoverMum wrote [ -> ]And the 65 needs to be promoted well. People will be Christmas shopping soon and a twice hourly and sunday service to dalton park will be a draw (we've got no shops left in Durham!)

It would be nice to get some USB's & Wifi.

My thoughts and observations on the service changes: Becoming Future Fit

Would welcome any comments/feedback as always.

(05 Sep 2021, 10:47 pm)Adrian wrote [ -> ]My thoughts and observations on the service changes: Becoming Future Fit

Would welcome any comments/feedback as always.

Another great blog post! Only thing I will say is that DCC did find the funds for a bus to Burnhope via the new service 730 - not sure if you perhaps missed that as it was added after the updates for the continuation of the 28 Chester stretch and the 71.

(05 Sep 2021, 11:00 pm)peter wrote [ -> ]Another great blog post! Only thing I will say is that DCC did find the funds for a bus to Burnhope via the new service 730 - not sure if you perhaps missed that as it was added after the updates for the continuation of the 28 Chester stretch and the 71.

Cheers! I'll update that tomorrow.
I had thought I had seen something about it, but couldn't find anything when I looked. The journey data doesn't appear to be in Google Maps yet either.

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk

(05 Sep 2021, 10:08 pm)GNE6312 wrote [ -> ]That's a good point arriva just put anything on anything, won't be surprised if we have 1429/32 running round in Blyth in the 63 livery and let's not forget 2843/49 advertising quick links to Darlington Town centre operating the 57/A & X14 and let's not forget 7558 spending 9 months in Blyth brand for the 268 from Bradford to Huddersfield .

It’s not just the exterior but also the interior. At least one of the 15 plates from Yorkshire still has 202/203 branding. 7553 or 7556 or both.

(05 Sep 2021, 11:30 pm)NewcastleOne wrote [ -> ]It’s not just the exterior but also the interior. At least one of the 15 plates from Yorkshire still has 202/203 branding. 7553 or 7556 or both.

Think they all do, forgot to mention thst, sure 7557/8/60/62 have internal 268 branding

(05 Sep 2021, 4:52 pm)Dan wrote [ -> ]I think we're just going round in circles now...

They weren't ever intended to be allocated Scania OmniCitys or Optare Versas, always Citaros (to maintain advertised customer specification - Wi-Fi, USB charging points and next stop announcements). As I say, this has been addressed at the very earliest opportunity (and was always intended to be, as there's no denying that the Citaros 'feel' a lot worse than a brand new ADL Enviro400).

Fair enough, hopefully a consistent X-Lines allocation through to end of service helps to build leisure passenger numbers in the evening.

(05 Sep 2021, 9:08 pm)GNE6312 wrote [ -> ]I don't know why people complain about things when GNE do them but when arriva do the same thing noone says a thing. Example Sunday allocations just because the 61 & 2/A are interworking people were complain even though its no big deal yet the arriva 6 interworks with the 22/24 on a Sunday yet noone makes a fuss about that. Or people complaining about a lack of timetables yet arriva have no timetables or stagecoach have a lack of timetables.

Differences in expectations. I'm not saying it's right, but given that GNE are far more shouty about the things they're doing well (of which there are a lot) it's far more evident when those things aren't happening/not to the standard expected. I haven't seen anything in the way of a push from either Arriva (bar the X93) or Stagecoach to get folk back on the buses, they both seem to just be assuming folk will come back - which to be honest is likely the case for both of them in various parts of their operations. 

To put it into a bit of perspective, I had a day out on Transdev Blazefield last week. Given all the hype surrounding the operation from themselves, their MD, and enthusiasts, my expectations were high. Had I stopped after the first two buses of the day they would have been met, but the more I went around their network, the more questions I asked. Now I don't think it's quite at that level with GNE, for example investment seems to trickle down far better and Sunday services (AFAIK) aren't as laughable on secondary routes, but when the sky high expectations aren't met then there will always be more room for criticism. When comparing that with Arriva, as folk like to do on here, I don't think I'm being harsh when I say expectations are substantially lower - so there's a lower drop if the bus doesn't have what is promised, for example.

So if I want to get the 62 from Sunderland what service will it be on previously, 38A or X6?

(05 Sep 2021, 10:47 pm)Adrian wrote [ -> ]My thoughts and observations on the service changes: Becoming Future Fit

Would welcome any comments/feedback as always.

Echo the previous comment - very well written, balanced and informative.

As Peter suggested, Durham County Council found the funds to maintain services to Chester-le-Street on service 28, Burnhope and Lanchester on service 30 (as service 730) and Houghton-le-Spring and Seaham on service 71. They continue to be operated by Go North East commercially until such a time comes that Durham County Council can procure a replacement service that they tender. Despite these service changes being agreed with the local authority many months ago, I think the service change date crept upon them and they weren’t able to procure replacement services in time.

Go North East also maintained a service to Pelaw Estate, as 734, in the ‘dead time’ of the 28, which would have otherwise been used as a layover period.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

(05 Sep 2021, 10:47 pm)Adrian wrote [ -> ]My thoughts and observations on the service changes: Becoming Future Fit

Would welcome any comments/feedback as always.

If the proposed change is visualized in map, should be easier to understand in the communications.
Even for the map published, for example, the Sunderland Network map, could not find the routes serving Leechmere Road ASDA.  Both 2A and 38 were not included in the map, puzzling me.

(06 Sep 2021, 6:53 am)volvob8l wrote [ -> ]If the proposed change is visualized in map, should be easier to understand in the communications.
Even for the map published, for example, the Sunderland Network map, could not find the routes serving Leechmere Road ASDA.  Both 2A and 38 were not included in the map, puzzling me.

The snippet of the map I used in my blog doesn't appear to have been published on the website yet, at least from what I can see. That version is more detailed than the City of Sunderland fare zone map, but still doesn't include everything.

To be honest, I think its a no-win situation. The geographically accurate maps are a lot better than the previous linear ones, but it'd have to be huge to simply list everything each bus serves. Maps probably have to compliment an actual timetable, but at least give a visual representation of connections and such.

(06 Sep 2021, 8:21 am)Adrian wrote [ -> ]The snippet of the map I used in my blog doesn't appear to have been published on the website yet, at least from what I can see. That version is more detailed than the City of Sunderland fare zone map, but still doesn't include everything.

To be honest, I think its a no-win situation. The geographically accurate maps are a lot better than the previous linear ones, but it'd have to be huge to simply list everything each bus serves. Maps probably have to compliment an actual timetable, but at least give a visual representation of connections and such.

Even the map shown in official website could not show every route under the geographical area.

(06 Sep 2021, 6:41 am)Dan wrote [ -> ]Echo the previous comment - very well written, balanced and informative.

As Peter suggested, Durham County Council found the funds to maintain services to Chester-le-Street on service 28, Burnhope and Lanchester on service 30 (as service 730) and Houghton-le-Spring and Seaham on service 71. They continue to be operated by Go North East commercially until such a time comes that Durham County Council can procure a replacement service that they tender. Despite these service changes being agreed with the local authority many months ago, I think the service change date crept upon them and they weren’t able to procure replacement services in time.

Go North East also maintained a service to Pelaw Estate, as 734, in the ‘dead time’ of the 28, which would have otherwise been used as a layover period.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I still can’t help but get slightly annoyed that council funds are being used for this sort of route. I can see rural areas - Burnhope being a good example - that funding a commercial service doesn’t always add up, but are we expected to believe the 71 that links two towns on pretty much a direct route with business parks in close proximity at both sides, retail offerings available in both locations plus leisure opportunities at Seaham and a new retail park in Houghton isn’t enough to sustain an hourly Monday-Saturday daytime service? If it’s not, then marketing has failed somewhere. I’m glad the route is saved as it would be a vital missing link, however call me syndical, but I can’t help but feel the bus company knew the council would do just that and get the cheque book out. I can sort of see the 28/28A (even though I still think it’s a strange terminus for the 28A) as it does do a bit of magical mystery tour of those villages west of Chester. But even then, has the travel pattern of people in Pelton Fell, Grange Villa and Beamish changed that much considering the 28 has been largely unchanged for well over a decade now? 
It will be interesting to see what happens with those routes - the 28/71 in particular, you can imagine it’ll be an inconvenience for passengers if further down the line a tendered service is given to Arriva or Stanley Travel. You’ll not be able use GNE tickets when in both communities GNE is pretty much the sole operator, with the odd exceptions. I mean might as well not be under any illusion regards the new 730, 734 and 643 routes longer term. If the 925,938 are anything to go by, they’ll be withdrawn at the next set of changes for better or worse.

(06 Sep 2021, 2:14 pm)Drifter60 wrote [ -> ]. I can sort of see the 28/28A (even though I still think it’s a strange terminus for the 28A) as it does do a bit of magical mystery tour of those villages west of Chester. But even then, has the travel pattern of people in Pelton Fell, Grange Villa and Beamish changed that much considering the 28 has been largely unchanged for well over a decade now? 

It does feel counterproductive they introduced the Beamish Express in almost competition with the 28 which has a pretty similar journey time. I can't imagine anyone willingly commutes on the 28A as it takes forever but the 28 is often quicker than the 21 (and more reliable) through from Birtley to Newcastle.

I do agree with your point on the tendered route though, we're going to essentially create bus poverty - you can see the press release now

'This service will no longer operate between Ouston and Chester Le Street - however Customers in Pelton wanting to travel to Newcastle can buy one of our super value day tickets (tho sorry Pelton you're just out of the range and there's no competition so you'll be needing the All Zone Go Ticket at just £7.50 - bargain)

'I know your only 9 miles from Newcastle but it's really great value...honest, look at Blyth that's double the distance away and they might only pay £4 to get to Newcastle but they can only get to Newcastle! You can travel the region - get to Hexham with yor ticket - nevermind you only want to get to Low Fell - we're BETTER THAN EVER!'

(05 Sep 2021, 9:40 pm)Dan wrote [ -> ]There’s a bigger marketing campaign planned, but only two of the four buses are actually ready, so a bit of a soft launch for the first week or two just until everything settles down.

There’s also a later service provided than there was previously on the 265, so it represents a pretty good investment from Go North East’s point of view which will be backed up with appropriate marketing (including printed publicity).

It’s one of the big positives in this round of changes, which hasn’t really been discussed here (possibly because the majority seem so focused on the negatives at the moment?!) and likewise the 21 to Brandon, opening up through connections to the Arnison and New College.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The reason I think people are focusing on the negatives is because the vast majority of the changes that have been made are negative. People aren't going to say things are great and be full of praise when that is the case.

Sent from my moto g(8) power lite using Tapatalk

(05 Sep 2021, 11:00 pm)peter wrote [ -> ]Another great blog post! Only thing I will say is that DCC did find the funds for a bus to Burnhope via the new service 730 - not sure if you perhaps missed that as it was added after the updates for the continuation of the 28 Chester stretch and the 71.

Great blog! I witnessed the 30/730 running together away from Stanley, with the 30 being operated by a dual door B7 (17:07) with nobody on, and the 730 operating about half full (17:10) - Not sure if there are many journeys that run pretty much at the same time, or its because it was one of the last runs on the 30 but it does make me wonder why the service was cut, baring in mind a few years back we had the X30/X31 running down to Lanchester. 

Same applies to earlier last week before the changes, my wife used the 30 from Lanchester (we both drive but the kids like the bus) and the bus had people standing from Burnhope, appreciate its for one journey but there is demand in places, maybe a different route may have worked.

(06 Sep 2021, 2:14 pm)Drifter60 wrote [ -> ]I still can’t help but get slightly annoyed that council funds are being used for this sort of route. I can see rural areas - Burnhope being a good example - that funding a commercial service doesn’t always add up, but are we expected to believe the 71 that links two towns on pretty much a direct route with business parks in close proximity at both sides, retail offerings available in both locations plus leisure opportunities at Seaham and a new retail park in Houghton isn’t enough to sustain an hourly Monday-Saturday daytime service? If it’s not, then marketing has failed somewhere. I’m glad the route is saved as it would be a vital missing link, however call me syndical, but I can’t help but feel the bus company knew the council would do just that and get the cheque book out. I can sort of see the 28/28A (even though I still think it’s a strange terminus for the 28A) as it does do a bit of magical mystery tour of those villages west of Chester. But even then, has the travel pattern of people in Pelton Fell, Grange Villa and Beamish changed that much considering the 28 has been largely unchanged for well over a decade now? 
It will be interesting to see what happens with those routes - the 28/71 in particular, you can imagine it’ll be an inconvenience for passengers if further down the line a tendered service is given to Arriva or Stanley Travel. You’ll not be able use GNE tickets when in both communities GNE is pretty much the sole operator, with the odd exceptions. I mean might as well not be under any illusion regards the new 730, 734 and 643 routes longer term. If the 925,938 are anything to go by, they’ll be withdrawn at the next set of changes for better or worse.

Agree with a lot of what you say. I've been thinking lately that one of the biggest problems in the bus industry these days is there is a lack of competition! When I was a lad in the eighties/nineties there were a heck of a lot more independent operators. Where I live in Washington there was the likes of Calvary Coaches, and St George Travel also serving the town. Then in Sunderland you had likes of Redby, Jolly, Micheal Franks etc and then further a field you had good size operators such as OK Travel and Classic and I could name a lot more too.

Back then if one of these operators launched a service GNE would quickly launch one in return. More often than not this would result in the smaller operator retreating as they could not compete with the big operator. Those that did manage to hold their own and put up a real fight would be bought out in the end. I'm sure this was the case with the likes of St George Travel as they were expanding their network at the time and I'm sure GNE bought them out by making them an offer they couldn't refuse. 

Today there are significantly less independent operators around and the big companies dominate and say they have to cut this and cut that and become more and more streamlined. It does beg the question though if there were still as many independent operators around now would there be as many service cuts? I doubt it and I bet they could find buses and drivers at the drop of a hat to create new services to take on the independents!

(06 Sep 2021, 9:23 pm)Washingtonian wrote [ -> ]Agree with a lot of what you say. I've been thinking lately that one of the biggest problems in the bus industry these days is there is a lack of competition! When I was a lad in the eighties/nineties there were a heck of a lot more independent operators. Where I live in Washington there was the likes of Calvary Coaches, and St George Travel also serving the town. Then in Sunderland you had likes of Redby, Jolly, Micheal Franks etc and then further a field you had good size operators such as OK Travel and Classic and I could name a lot more too.

Back then if one of these operators launched a service GNE would quickly launch one in return. More often than not this would result in the smaller operator retreating as they could not compete with the big operator. Those that did manage to hold their own and put up a real fight would be bought out in the end. I'm sure this was the case with the likes of St George Travel as they were expanding their network at the time and I'm sure GNE bought them out by making them an offer they couldn't refuse. 

Today there are significantly less independent operators around and the big companies dominate and say they have to cut this and cut that and become more and more streamlined. It does beg the question though if there were still as many independent operators around now would there be as many service cuts? I doubt it and I bet they could find buses and drivers at the drop of a hat to create new services to take on the independents!

Interesting take but not sure I agree. Personally I think there's more competition now than there ever has been now but it's not from other bus operators it's cars. The majority of households have more than one car nowadays and pretty much anyone can if they want to.

Back in the 80's that would be unheard of for most families especially in poorer areas to have 2 cars between them like nowadays. Independents wouldn't be able to make money nowadays if they tried and that's not because of GNE etc it's just lack of demand. There's also the Metro which has had a massive impact in a lot of areas aswell for better really (unless your looking from a purely bus point of view).

Competition argubly makes things worse, you just look at North Tyneside, Hartlepool, South Shields / Sunderland and Peterlee. The 4 areas with the most competition and argubly the 4 areas with the most fractured networks aswell with Stagecoach at South Shields and Hartlepool and Peterlee (GNE) being low cost depots and there's an awful lot of subsidised buses in the areas aswell even known they're all urban / semi urban (for Peterlee) areas.