(24 Nov 2014, 11:31 am)cbma06 wrote [ -> ]I went to the GNE stall at park lane, no consultation leaflets, you have to ask, their did mention that their propose to extend the 2a 2c to silksworth and in turn to replace service 42.
If this came to fruition then I'd expect the route number to change. It's pretty pointless adding the A/C suffix when neither service operates as a circular route (I know it once did though). Any extension/amalgamation would render the suffix even more pointless.
(24 Nov 2014, 11:31 am)cbma06 wrote [ -> ]I went to the GNE stall at park lane, no consultation leaflets, you have to ask, their did mention that their propose to extend the 2a 2c to silksworth and in turn to replace service 42.
Some reason i think that's a good move, would it just extend from Park Lane to Silksworth,doing the current 42 route through the town then so on?, it also keeps a bus every 10 minutes.
Problem... Chester road.... its a nightmare, wonder if they will increase the 2A/2C in a Sunday, if this change goes ahead.
Proposals are interesting,
Silver Arrows to Silksworth is something I can't make my mind up on, on the one hand seems like an idea to open up connections out of Sunderland for passengers in Silksworth/Hollycairside but I've seen two SA buses come in together at park lane so I'm not sure if reliability may be an issue.
Prince Bishops to South Shields seems pointless to me, the twenties can suffer delays enough at present going to Shields will surely make it worse.
Laser down to every 15 minutes seems a shock, we were talking on here about it been a profitable route so that seems like a strange decision.
X36 down to hourly between Downhill-Newcastle isn't a surprise, it does okay around the estates but can become empty towards Newcastle. Mind peak times I'd like to see a half hourly frequent retained, I've seen busy buses leave Newcastle on the 5ish departures.
I wonder if the Downhill X36 will interwork with the 99? Not sure what to make on the 99 changes but this would leave GNE with no bus over the Queen Alexandra or Pallion?
I am trying to analyse the impact if these route changes all came off.
There seems to be some consolidation and extending of routes.
The 35 dropping to every 15 mins and curtailed to run between Sunderland and 'the coalfields'. Those who don't live on the route of the 20 and travel beyond Sunderland, will now need to purchase a day ticket.
The less frequent service and potential delays on the 20, could see issues with passengers wanting to travel between Sunderland and Houghton - especially as the other alternative (X35), isn't the most reliable.
The extending of the 20 will maintain the link between Wearside and Shields, but will inevitably cause issues with reliability. The 35's often end up delayed on the Sunderland - Shields section, whilst the 20 sees delays as it stands.
Due to the current pricing structure and speed of journeys, it is apparent from my own experience that the 20 is the bus of choice between Sunderland and Houghton - with those living in the coalfields, using the first connecting bus beyond there. Those living in the direction of Hetton, have the 35, X35 and X1 to choose from. It will be interesting to see how those changes impact on travelling patterns.
The extension of the 2a/2c to Silksworth, sees the link maintained between Silksworth and Royal Hospital - following the removal of the 99. Although a longer journey, I imagine travel costs will be the same due to 'day ticket' prices.
It will also maintain a regular service on the all important city centre - Silksworth route.
The X36 and 99. More changes for North Sunderland estates?
As the impact on these changes will be felt beyond Park Lane, I hope consultations are carried out in other areas, such as Shields, Houghton, Hetton etc.
Just to look at the other side of the fence, how will it affect fleet disposition?
I do imagine delays to the 20, it already seems to have a few problems often I see two arrive in Park Lane together and can sometimes get stuck getting into Durham.
I hate long distance routes because if something happens at one end of the route the whole route can suffer and if I wanted to travel from Belmont to Durham I don't want to be stood waiting ages because of roadworks in South Shields.
Looking at the fleet, how many buses would the new look Laser need? More than 7?
As if the Silver Arrows is going to work presumably it's going to need Five more Mercs to cover the Silksworth extensions. 12 are currently allocated to Laser, 7 remain on there, 5 to SA. The Solars to prince bishops to cover the shields extension?
Five Versas would be freed up by this, could these go to the 39? With then 8306-8309/8319 becoming spare? It could explain the plain purple versas we've had for 13 months now.
8319 remain at Deptford as a spare, with 8306-8309 going to 67/69, the 5? Could the 29 justify new buses?
Problem is there's only five versas, 29 has 8 PVR. Versas could replace the cadet boards though?
Do wonder if the X36/99 could interwork therefore allowing the moving of two MPDs. Otherwise some of the Fast Cats Solars could be debranded?
I had wondered if GNE would merge the 38 into another route as personally I'm not sure the solos can cope.
PB0003954/623 - GO NORTH EAST LIMITED, 117 QUEEN STREET, GATESHEAD, NE8 2UA
Registration Accepted by SN
Starting Point: GATESHEAD INTERCHANGE
Finish Point: LOW FELL, DURHAM ROAD, NR JOICEY ROAD JUNCTION
Via:
Service Number: EP1
Service Type: Limited Stop
Effective Date: 10-DEC-2014
Other Details: 10TH TO 14TH DECEMBER 2014 ONLY FOR THE ENCHANTED PARK EVENT
The "consultation" was pretty pathetic, having to ask the man what the changes were rather than having a leaflet, hence he didn't mention 2a/c replacing 42 - have any other changes been missed? He also seemed to think that the changes were inevitable, as we all know they are, whatever people say on the form. I always thought X36 half-hourly to Newcastle had worse loadings than the alternate X3/X36 prior to January this year. Yes the 99 is rather pointless; 20 to Shields will be useful to my friend living at Fulwell, but is it better for those travelling the full 35 route (and its predecessors) from time immemorial? I actually favour longer routes as they offer more journey opportunities, but they do make regulation more difficult when there's severe delays.
Not sure if anyone has read this post (
http://northeastbuses.co.uk/forum/showth...p?tid=1177).
In it, I linked to academic study material on research samples and also an online calculator, set up to work out a sample size, based on population and margin of error.
Some of it is pretty heavy, but the crux was, that based on a population of 275,000 people - the 'team' in Park Lane today would need to see a few hundred people over the 8 hours they were there.
As there appears to be one person and he was late, he is going to have his work cut out!
Wonder how close the poor guy gets?
Don't envy him, especially as he will need to speak to each and every passenger due to the lack of leaflets!
Just to compare other operators, I have mentioned in the South West thread, how First are recruiting for members of a panel. Expenses are paid.
(24 Nov 2014, 12:35 pm)Greg in Weardale wrote [ -> ]The "consultation" was pretty pathetic, having to ask the man what the changes were rather than having a leaflet, hence he didn't mention 2a/c replacing 42 - have any other changes been missed? He also seemed to think that the changes were inevitable, as we all know they are, whatever people say on the form. I always thought X36 half-hourly to Newcastle had worse loadings than the alternate X3/X36 prior to January this year. Yes the 99 is rather pointless; 20 to Shields will be useful to my friend living at Fulwell, but is it better for those travelling the full 35 route (and its predecessors) from time immemorial? I actually favour longer routes as they offer more journey opportunities, but they do make regulation more difficult when there's severe delays.
Was the 38 not up for changes?
Its daft not having leaflets and u had to ask whats changing... clearly not thought through
As someone who was previously less cynical about the consultation being held in Park Lane, I think it stands to reason that my negative opinions (having attended the consultation) are potentially less bias than what could have been expected from others...
For reasons unknown, Go North East did not turn up on time this morning. I'm not sure when the consultation team arrived, but it certainly wasn't before 08:10am, which is when I arrived travelling to school. The opinions of a large number of commuters were therefore potentially missed, and the audience of the consultation will be more limited now, I'd imagine...
I decided to attend the consultation during my lunch break instead. A vertical banner (not sure what they're called) was set up
near Stand L in Park Lane, with two employees present. One employee (who is a regular face at publicity launches and such) was busy talking to someone, and another (Deptford-based) was at the table showing a Sunderland Councillor the proposed changes, ahead of a meeting next Thursday to make a final decision on the proposed route changes. It was good to have the employee from Sunderland present, as I'd guess he had a better local knowledge than the other employee possibly did.
Having arrived half way through the councillor's discussion with the Go North East employee, I managed to pick up a few things which I otherwise would not have done... After the councillor left, I was asked where I live, to which I responded 'Near the Stadium of Light', and I was told that there would be no changes to me other than the number of the service. The chat was all of 15-seconds in length, and I was extremely disappointed that there was no opportunity for me to go through the proposed route changes in full like the councillor did. I feel this was perhaps done to minimise the amount of irrelevant feedback which could have been gathered, though in the past (with printed leaflets), we've been able to see the full picture...
All in all, I was extremely disappointed with the consultation. I had no opportunity to give my feedback, despite there being forms on the table ready to be filled out... I shall be sending an e-mail to Customer Services tonight to voice my concerns with this method of consultation, as it really wasn't as good as I thought it potentially could have been.
- The 20/35 merge was expected, for the aforementioned suggestion of it increasing the likelihood of investment being viable (providing passenger numbers - and hence profit levels - increase). Reliability and lost mileage on these services isn't as bad as is being made out above, other than during peak times (when service 20 tends to struggle a little more). As I have already suggested, the Scania L94UB/Wright Solar vehicles don't struggle at all, despite what is suggested on this forum, and the revised route shouldn't be too much more difficult to cope with, either...
- The 2A/2C / 42 merge wasn't as expected, though it's something I personally would like to see. Reliability is pretty solid during the day time and the majority of buses have time to lay over at either end of the route on services 2A/2C, so this would work well.
- Service 99 being curtailed - wasn't someone suggesting on Go North East's Facebook page that this service has full loads? Not impressed to see changes being made when very few customers from this route are going to be there to contribute.
- Service X36 having its frequency reduced comes as a surprise, as the loadings I have witnessed have been quite decent (albeit full of pensioners rather than fare-paying passengers).
- The 38 extending to Houghton-le-Spring / nPower replacing the 35A on an half-hourly frequency combined with the 238 (from what I could make out) isn't too bad...
So it was located where passengers from affected services wouldn't necessarily need to be either?
Those waiting for a Shields bound 35, 20, X36 (as well as 99), would potentially not have a say on the services - unless they went out of their way
The loadings on the 35a have been diabolical since the leg between Rainton Bridge and Houghton was sent via the A690.
Any idea which route the 38 will be taking?
(24 Nov 2014, 1:43 pm)Andreos1 wrote [ -> ]So it was located where passengers from affected services wouldn't necessarily need to be either?
Those waiting for a Shields bound 35, 20, X36 (as well as 99), would potentially not have a say on the services...
The loadings on the 35a have been diabolical since the leg between Rainton Bridge and Houghton was sent via the A690.
Any idea which route the 38 will be taking?
This is why I previously suggested the stand would be located near Greggs - in the middle of the 20 and 35 stands - clearly this hasn't been the case though... Really hadn't expected any proposed service changes to the 99 due to the consultation being held in Park Lane (where no passengers who only travel on that route could have a say)...
I think the low passenger numbers on service 35A (and hence falling profit levels) are the main reason why we're seeing proposed service changes. Despite this, from what I could make out on the map being showed to the local councillor, the 38 was proposed to take the same routing as service 35A through Newbottle and such. I prefer to read and hear information at the same time to fully understand what someone is saying, and as I was only given the option of listening to the Go North East employee (I could barely see the maps - despite being printed on A3 paper), I was left struggling to understand some of the things that were being said.
(24 Nov 2014, 1:31 pm)Dan wrote [ -> ]As someone who was previously less cynical about the consultation being held in Park Lane, I think it stands to reason that my negative opinions (having attended the consultation) are potentially less bias than what could have been expected from others...
For reasons unknown, Go North East did not turn up on time this morning. I'm not sure when the consultation team arrived, but it certainly wasn't before 08:10am, which is when I arrived travelling to school. The opinions of a large number of commuters were therefore potentially missed, and the audience of the consultation will be more limited now, I'd imagine...
I decided to attend the consultation during my lunch break instead. A vertical banner (not sure what they're called) was set up near Stand L in Park Lane, with two employees present. One employee (who is a regular face at publicity launches and such) was busy talking to someone, and another (Deptford-based) was at the table showing a Sunderland Councillor the proposed changes, ahead of a meeting next Thursday to make a final decision on the proposed route changes. It was good to have the employee from Sunderland present, as I'd guess he had a better local knowledge than the other employee possibly did.
Having arrived half way through the councillor's discussion with the Go North East employee, I managed to pick up a few things which I otherwise would not have done... After the councillor left, I was asked where I live, to which I responded 'Near the Stadium of Light', and I was told that there would be no changes to me other than the number of the service. The chat was all of 15-seconds in length, and I was extremely disappointed that there was no opportunity for me to go through the proposed route changes in full like the councillor did. I feel this was perhaps done to minimise the amount of irrelevant feedback which could have been gathered, though in the past (with printed leaflets), we've been able to see the full picture...
All in all, I was extremely disappointed with the consultation. I had no opportunity to give my feedback, despite there being forms on the table ready to be filled out... I shall be sending an e-mail to Customer Services tonight to voice my concerns with this method of consultation, as it really wasn't as good as I thought it potentially could have been.
- The 20/35 merge was expected, for the aforementioned suggestion of it increasing the likelihood of investment being viable (providing passenger numbers - and hence profit levels - increase). Reliability and lost mileage on these services isn't as bad as is being made out above, other than during peak times (when service 20 tends to struggle a little more).
- The 2A/2C / 42 merge wasn't as expected, though it's something I personally would like to see. Reliability is pretty solid during the day time and the majority of buses have time to lay over at either end of the route on services 2A/2C, so this would work well.
- Service 99 being curtailed - wasn't someone suggesting on Go North East's Facebook page that this service has full loads? Not impressed to see changes being made when very few customers from this route are going to be there to contribute.
- Service X36 having its frequency reduced comes as a surprise, as the loadings I have witnessed have been quite decent (albeit full of pensioners rather than fare-paying passengers).
- The 38 extending to Houghton-le-Spring / nPower replacing the 35A on an half-hourly frequency combined with the 238 (from what I could make out) isn't too bad...
20/35 sounds quite good but it will be a long route... could the current scanias cope unless new buses will be ordered for changes, for the 20.
20 - maybe new buses
35 - citaros
The 38 changes sounds decent, think parts of the current timetable are stupid...sure 1 part of the timetable is 20, 40 then nothing... why not have the full route 20 minutes, then have the 238 carry on from the 38 route -maybe fully cadet?
Service 99 -pointless just withdraw it!
How much will the PVR go down on the fast cats, just 1?, least it will have a spare!
(24 Nov 2014, 1:31 pm)Dan wrote [ -> ]Having arrived half way through the councillor's discussion with the Go North East employee, I managed to pick up a few things which I otherwise would not have done... After the councillor left, I was asked where I live, to which I responded 'Near the Stadium of Light', and I was told that there would be no changes to me other than the number of the service. The chat was all of 15-seconds in length, and I was extremely disappointed that there was no opportunity for me to go through the proposed route changes in full like the councillor did. I feel this was perhaps done to minimise the amount of irrelevant feedback which could have been gathered, though in the past (with printed leaflets), we've been able to see the full picture...
[*]The 38 extending to Houghton-le-Spring / nPower replacing the 35A on an half-hourly frequency combined with the 238 (from what I could make out) isn't too bad...
[*]
Very strange that they told you you wouldn't be affected. If they are changing the 20 to run past your house, it means you could lose links to the Royal Hospital, Silksworth, Herrington, Hetton but in turn gain links to Durham, The Raintons etc.
Not totally understanding what's propsoing on service 38?
Every 20 minutes retained Sundeland, Ashbrooke, Hollycarraide. Then two buses each hour to Rainton Bridge (via Tunstall Bank, Doxford & Houghton presumably?) as Sercice 38. The 238 hourly unchanged to Seaham, Northlea, Houghton?
(24 Nov 2014, 1:48 pm)Michael wrote [ -> ]20/35 sounds quite good but it will be a long route... could the current scanias cope unless new buses will be ordered for changes, for the 20.
20 - maybe new buses
35 - citaros
The 38 changes sounds decent, think parts of the current timetable are stupid...sure 1 part of the timetable is 20, 40 then nothing... why not have the full route 20 minutes, then have the 238 carry on from the 38 route -maybe fully cadet?
Service 99 -pointless just withdraw it!
How much will the PVR go down on the fast cats, just 1?, least it will have a spare!
With time for relief at timing points located across the route (like at present with services 20 and 35), I can't see the long route particularly affecting anything. The Scania L94UB/Wright Solar vehicles are sound - majority of them are full of power and interurban work is a doddle for them. I was on one of the "Fast Cats" examples the other day from Boldon to Newcastle and, despite a little squeal from underneath, I forgot how impressive they were on the Felling Bypass.
As an irregular user of services 38/238, I think that the timetable for those services is quite confusing. I'd therefore welcome a more 'stable' timetable which, combined with service 238, is half-hourly.
As a regular user of services 35/35A/35B/35C, I also think the lettered variations of the services is quite confusing and potentially has had an impact on falling passenger numbers.
On the proposed route changes, the PVR of service X36 would decrease by one vehicle, yes. Some of the proposed service changes will be designed to reduce costs and dispose of some of the older vehicles in the fleet without investment; this being one of them.
(24 Nov 2014, 1:51 pm)Drifter60 wrote [ -> ]Very strange that they told you you wouldn't be affected. If they are changing the 20 to run past your house, it means you could lose links to the Royal Hospital, Silksworth, Herrington, Hetton but in turn gain links to Durham, The Raintons etc.
Not totally understanding what's propsoing on service 38?
Every 20 minutes retained Sundeland, Ashbrooke, Hollycarraide. Then two buses each hour to Rainton Bridge (via Tunstall Bank, Doxford & Houghton presumably?) as Sercice 38. The 238 hourly unchanged to Seaham, Northlea, Houghton?
I don't know if it was a genuine mistake or not... It's not like I had the opportunity to give the company feedback on what the proposals were anyway, so there'd be no point in attempting to 'cover up' what the proposals were...
There seemed to be some confusion with the employees regarding the 38, and the guy from Deptford suggested that it was still 'up for discussion' due to Nexus' involvement with the evening variation of service 38.
Hate to say "told you so", Dan, but it was a lousy consultation and perhaps you'll realise that the sun doesn't always shine out of GNE's exhaust pipe. Their consultations have been progressively worse over the years. When they did the full ones via internet and leaflets I really thought they did care about what people thought, but soon realised they didn't. And today's one was the most pathetic ever; one man at 8.45 am who asked my friend where he lived, thus when he said "North Sunderland" only told him about those changes and didn't mention 2a/c or 38, although he travels widely across the whole network, as many members of this forum do, so our views, more informed than the average passengers, are at least as important. So if anyone mentions sampling techniques again, this consultation was total bollocks.
(24 Nov 2014, 2:09 pm)Greg in Weardale wrote [ -> ]Hate to say "told you so", Dan, but it was a lousy consultation and perhaps you'll realise that the sun doesn't always shine out of GNE's exhaust pipe. Their consultations have been progressively worse over the years. When they did the full ones via internet and leaflets I really thought they did care about what people thought, but soon realised they didn't.
It goes without saying that Go North East is not perfect; indeed, no bus operator is. There's always going to be criticism due, but the criticism from company to company will vary, and so will the reasoning for the basis of complaints too. There's always a flip side of the coin to any criticism though, and I feel the majority of members of this forum don't look to see the other side when they're firmly in place with their views, which is why I always look to provide the opposite side of the argument... You'll find that tyresmoke aims to do the same for Arriva, and mrnut85 for Stagecoach...
The consultations on the web platform allowed far too many people to contribute, and a lot of these people suggested that they travelled on the routes affected a number of times per day. The consultations on the print platform didn't gather enough responses. It's the first time Go North East has done a face-to-face consultation, and it hasn't worked particularly well either. They're trying to gather as many opinions as possible, using a method which is cheap but effective. I don't think this method has worked particularly well, which means the company should aim to work on another method in readiness for the next consultation.
(24 Nov 2014, 2:09 pm)Greg in Weardale wrote [ -> ]Hate to say "told you so", Dan, but it was a lousy consultation and perhaps you'll realise that the sun doesn't always shine out of GNE's exhaust pipe. Their consultations have been progressively worse over the years. When they did the full ones via internet and leaflets I really thought they did care about what people thought, but soon realised they didn't. And today's one was the most pathetic ever; one man at 8.45 am who asked my friend where he lived, thus when he said "North Sunderland" only told him about those changes and didn't mention 2a/c or 38, although he travels widely across the whole network, as many members of this forum do, so our views, more informed than the average passengers, are at least as important. So if anyone mentions sampling techniques again, this consultation was total bollocks.
I don't have a GNE bus past my main address in DH6. But my other address in SR7 I do, and I use GNE's buses very frequently any changes to service 60 would be a big impact despite the fact on paper I live in a different postcode area. I study in Sunderland, work in Sunderland/Newcastle/Houghton - Seaham is practically where I spend most of my time, I have friends, family in Seaham/Murton/Easington. I travel on wide range of bus services, they should at least let people give there views- granted I haven't got an opinion on the Cobalt Clipper or the TEN, but I do on the drifter, East Durham, WearTees Xpress, Red Arrows, Fast Cats.
Dan lives in North Sunderland but saying he doesn't need to know about anything happening south of the city centre is ludicrous.
I can't speak for everyone, but it may be their views are based on 'experience' gained over a number of years.
Whether that is the same with all operators or some - who knows, but having seen it and worn the t-shirt in relation to operators and how they view certain aspects of their operation, I am perfectly entitled to the views I have.
I am more than willing to be shown wrong, however they have yet to convince me otherwise.
To repeat what I said earlier - we are customers/stakeholders in the business and without us, the business would cease to exist.