(29 Dec 2014, 4:48 pm)aureolin wrote [ -> ]It would seem that the article even confuses customer services...
Maybe we at NEB should attempt to disseminate the changes to make things clearer.
From 1 February 2015, there will be some changes to services 82, 82A and 83, which will offer a number of new connections for passengers. We have asked passengers about their travel patterns on the current services before making these changes, and we hope that passengers will benefit from the new links which will be provided.
- Service 82 will operate via Meresyde and Grange Crescent in Leam Lane instead of Felling Bypass, following passenger requests, creating new direct links from this area
- In Birtley, the service will be extended to the new housing estate at Northside, serving Highridge, Blackfell Way and Mount Pleasant Road
- Service 83 will no longer operate between Heworth and Concord, due to the low number of passengers travelling on this section of route
- Passengers on Felling bypass and Lingey Lane can continue to use Connections 4 which operates up to every 10 minutes
- Passengers travelling from Sulgrave to Washington Galleries can continue to do so on Whey Aye 5-0 services 50/50A, with passengers from Sulgrave travelling to Gateshead or Newcastle being able to use service Fab 56.
- A new works service 982 will be provided between Stephenson Industrial Estate and Concord at peak times for commuters, allowing connections with other bus services at Concord to complete your journey
- The number of passengers travelling from Harraton and Rickleton to Birtley is very low, which means that unfortunately service 83 will no longer operate between Rickleton and Birtley. Passengers from Washington, Lambton, Ayton and Barley Mow will still be able to travel to Birtley on service 82.
- Due to low passenger numbers, the evening journeys between Heworth and Concord will no longer operate. The evening journeys between Heworth and Lambton which are currently provided by Arriva will continue to operate unchanged. However, from the same date the frequency of Connections 4 will be increased to every 20 minutes on an evening between Heworth, Lingey Lane, Usworth and Concord.
- Sunday services will operate between Concord and Birtley only, due to low passenger numbers between Concord and Heworth. Connections 4 continues to operate every 15 minutes on Sunday daytimes between Concord, Usworth, Lingey Lane and Heworth.
- The services will be renumbered 82 and 82A
- service 82 will operate via Spout Lane and Barmston Village Centre, and service 82A will operate via Hertburn Industrial Estate and Barmston Waskerley Road.
- Service 82 will operate to and from Heworth, and service 82A will terminate at Concord
- Service 82 will operate to Birtley, with service 82A operating from Birtley
- Service 82A will operate to Rickleton and Harraton, with service 82 operating from Rickleton and Harraton
- Passengers are advised to check the destination and the route number on the front of the bus before boarding
- View NEW timetable
- All services on this route will be renumbered either 82 or 82A.
- Services will be rerouted between Heworth and Concord via Grange Crescent and Meresyde (Leam Lane Estate) instead of the Felling-by-Pass; and will omit Stephenson Industrial Estate and Sulgrave. New service 982 will operate between Concord and Stephenson Industrial Estate at peak-times to ensure current links are maintained. Passengers boarding/alighting on the Felling-by-Pass can catch Connections 4 to Concord and connect with our services.
- Service 82 will extend beyond its current terminus in Birtley to serve the new housing estate at Northside. Buses will serve Highridge, Blackfell Way and Mount Pleasant Road.
Next....
(Anyone else want to try?)
(29 Dec 2014, 5:14 pm)MurdnunoC wrote [ -> ]Maybe we at NEB should attempt to disseminate the changes to make things clearer.
- All services on this route will be renumbered either 82 or 82A.
- Services will be rerouted between Heworth and Concord via Grange Crescent and Meresyde (Leam Lane Estate) instead of the Felling-by-Pass; and will omit Stephenson Industrial Estate and Sulgrave. New service 982 will operate between Concord and Stephenson Industrial Estate at peak-times to ensure current links are maintained. Passengers boarding/alighting on the Felling-by-Pass can catch Connections 4 to Concord and connect with our services.
- Service 82 will extend beyond its current terminus in Birtley to serve the new housing estate at Northside. Buses will serve Highridge, Blackfell Way and Mount Pleasant Road.
Next....
I think that is pretty much it! Just a shame the changes in the article comes across like a parent trying to avoid telling their kid that their pet goldfish has died.
The thing that got me, was the line which said it wasn't viable to run 82/83 between Heworth and Concord - due to low passenger numbers.
But in the next breath, they tell you to use the 4, apparently the 4 is having its frequency increased.
Does the 4 justify an extra bus? Certainly not between Heworth and Concord, cos numbers would have meant the 82/83 were viable...
(29 Dec 2014, 5:23 pm)Andreos1 wrote [ -> ]The thing that got me, was the line which said it wasn't viable to run 82/83 between Heworth and Concord - due to low passenger numbers.
But in the next breath, they tell you to use the 4, apparently the 4 is having its frequency increased.
Does the 4 justify an extra bus? Certainly not between Heworth and Concord, cos numbers would have meant the 82/83 were viable...
I'd say people don't use it around Sulgrave and Stephenson Industrial estate after Concord, but definitely not the case for the full stretch. The 4/82/82A at present form a combined 15 min frequency from Heworth, so folk will get whatever Washington bus turns up. Although the 4/82/82A very rarely pick up between Heworth and Concord in my experience.
Lingey Lane and Usworth College. Sometimes on bypass and Follingsby Roundabout in peaks. That's about it.
All of which, are in easy reach of any of the Heworth - Washington services.
The 191 ran through Leam Lane, as per the changes and never stopped at all, whenever I used it.
Locals seemingly preferring a 'Gateshead' service.
(29 Dec 2014, 5:23 pm)Andreos1 wrote [ -> ]The thing that got me, was the line which said it wasn't viable to run 82/83 between Heworth and Concord - due to low passenger numbers.
But in the next breath, they tell you to use the 4, apparently the 4 is having its frequency increased.
Does the 4 justify an extra bus? Certainly not between Heworth and Concord, cos numbers would have meant the 82/83 were viable...
To answer this question, you need to look at the departure times out of Heworth.
Currently:
Service 4: 08/38 mins past each hour
Service 82/82A: 23/53 mins past each hour
Combined, this allows for a 15-minute frequency between Heworth and Concord (4 buses per hour). Passenger trends mean that customers are opting for the first example which turns up, regardless of which service this is, and the passenger numbers are fairly low on each service.
From February:
Service 4: 08/28/48 mins past each hour
This allows for a 20-minute frequency between Heworth and Concord, with the resource saved used on an additional Concord - Fallowfield Way bus, each hour.
(29 Dec 2014, 5:36 pm)Andreos1 wrote [ -> ]Lingey Lane and Usworth College. Sometimes on bypass and Follingsby Roundabout in peaks. That's about it.
All of which, are in easy reach of any of the Heworth - Washington services.
The 191 ran through Leam Lane, as per the changes and never stopped at all, whenever I used it.
Locals seemingly preferring a 'Gateshead' service.
In the past, there was usually one service between Washington and Heworth which was routed via Leam Lane Estate. Traditionally, the route was: Leam Lane, Cotemede, Fewster Square, Meresyde, Colegate and High Heworth Lane.
Cutting the frequency from 10 min to 12 min means one less bus per hour hence more passengers per bus so there will be more dwell time at stops thus the timetable will need longer end to end. It was not honest for GNE to say the 27 and 56 changes were to make the service more reliable when in fact they were also, and probably mainly, to save money. If you say passengers won't notice the difference between a 10 and a 12 minute frequency, then would they notice if it went down to 15?
(29 Dec 2014, 6:13 pm)Greg in Weardale wrote [ -> ]Cutting the frequency from 10 min to 12 min means one less bus per hour hence more passengers per bus so there will be more dwell time at stops thus the timetable will need longer end to end. It was not honest for GNE to say the 27 and 56 changes were to make the service more reliable when in fact they were also, and probably mainly, to save money. If you say passengers won't notice the difference between a 10 and a 12 minute frequency, then would they notice if it went down to 15?
If you lived on the routes of services 27 and 56, would you prefer the service to remain as it is at present? Not knowing if you can rely on it or not, as sometimes the buses get delayed and bunch up in twos? The current service is completely unpredictable, and whilst I haven't been affected a great deal, those who use the services more frequently may be delayed more frequently. This issue is not unique to services 27 and 56, either. It happens to Stagecoach's streamlined 10-minute frequency services too, but you don't find them doing anything about it, as apparently they're happy with their profit levels ya'da ya'da...
For your information, service 56 currently takes 1hr 10m from Sunderland - Newcastle. There is currently three minutes layover in Newcastle, and five in Sunderland. The new timetable gives 1hr 15m from Sunderland - Newcastle. There will be five minutes layover in Newcastle, and a further twelve in Sunderland. I needn't really say any more...
(29 Dec 2014, 6:13 pm)Greg in Weardale wrote [ -> ]Cutting the frequency from 10 min to 12 min means one less bus per hour hence more passengers per bus so there will be more dwell time at stops thus the timetable will need longer end to end. It was not honest for GNE to say the 27 and 56 changes were to make the service more reliable when in fact they were also, and probably mainly, to save money. If you say passengers won't notice the difference between a 10 and a 12 minute frequency, then would they notice if it went down to 15?
10 min frequency to a 15 minute frequency? Yes. 10 min to 12 min? I'd argue no. The 56 is generally a couple of minutes late anyway, so there'd be no noticeable difference. I honestly think they have done it primarily to improve reliability, but maintaining margins will also come into it.
There was always going to be three options in my opinion:
- Decrease (not 'revise') the frequency from 10 to 12 minutes, removing a bus from the PVR, but adding extra running time into the timetable.
- Leave the frequency at 10 minutes, but add an extra bus into the PVR, by still adding the extra running time into the timetable.
- Do nothing, and let people continue to complain about buses running in twos, and the company being accused "not being bothered" about it.
Can they realistically win?
At least you probably wouldn't see 3 56 deckers at Sunderland interchange after the changes
(29 Dec 2014, 6:33 pm)aureolin wrote [ -> ]10 min frequency to a 15 minute frequency? Yes. 10 min to 12 min? I'd argue no. The 56 is generally a couple of minutes late anyway, so there'd be no noticeable difference. I honestly think they have done it primarily to improve reliability, but maintaining margins will also come into it.
There was always going to be three options in my opinion:
- Decrease (not 'revise') the frequency from 10 to 12 minutes, removing a bus from the PVR, but adding extra running time into the timetable.
- Leave the frequency at 10 minutes, but add an extra bus into the PVR, by still adding the extra running time into the timetable.
- Do nothing, and let people continue to complain about buses running in twos, and the company being accused "not being bothered" about it.
Can they realistically win?
Agree completely.
The issue with the second option is that Go North East cannot source any further Volvo B9TLs, either. The Cobalt Clipper's PVR increased and now one of the 'red' spares' forms part of the PVR, meaning that other vehicles besides Volvo B9TLs are now more common on the services and some customers do not get the full 'Cobalt Clipper experience' (Wi-Fi, plugs, etc). The same applied to the TEN, with the difference being that Volvo B7TLs were the dedicated spares for those services opposed to Volvo B9TLs of the same specification, so on a daily basis customers don't get the full 'TEN experience'.
(29 Dec 2014, 6:13 pm)Greg in Weardale wrote [ -> ]Cutting the frequency from 10 min to 12 min means one less bus per hour hence more passengers per bus so there will be more dwell time at stops thus the timetable will need longer end to end. It was not honest for GNE to say the 27 and 56 changes were to make the service more reliable when in fact they were also, and probably mainly, to save money. If you say passengers won't notice the difference between a 10 and a 12 minute frequency, then would they notice if it went down to 15?
If I were running a bus company then I'd obviously want more passengers per bus.
It may come as a surprise to some but I'm not against cutting high-frequency services if passenger numbers are relatively low and reliability can be ostensibly improved. If buses are reportedly running around in twos and threes, and services are playing hop-scotch with each other at bus-stops along the route, it is pointless trying to maintain the frequency. It would be more expedient to save money by reducing the PVR and allowing more journey time. If buses are playing hop-scotch at bus-stops then the 'dwell-time' is going to be the same at any one bus-stop as one bus stops to pick up all the passengers while the others pass.
I'm not privy as to the reason why GNE decided to reduce the frequencies of services 27 and 56. Maybe there was some underlying directive to reduce costs wherever necessary, maybe the routes in question don't justify a ten-minute frequency outside of peak hours, or maybe it was down to reliability. Personally, I think very few routes in Tyne and Wear require a ten or even twelve minute frequency.
Im also a bit confused about some of the changes to Services 82/82A.
After reading the article and timetable provided, am I correct in thinking: -
Service 82 will operate: - Heworth to Rickleton (no longer serving Birtley)
and
Service 82A will operate: - Northside, Birtley to Concord?
It seems the article summarising the changes contradicts the timetable in places. It says in the summary that the 82 will serve to Birtley but it is blank on the timetable and no times are shown for it arriving/departing Birtley? It also says that the journeys between Harraton and Rickleton to Birtley will be withdrawn but if the new 82 is serve Birtley then these journeys would still be maintained wouldn't they? Very confusing.
I must say I think its becoming a bit of a farce how Go North East are constantly chopping and changing services - particularly when they change services that seem to work (i.e the 29). Also, I find it particularly stupid how they've just changed the M2 and M3 to 82 and 83 and now they are changing it to 82/82A? Why didn't they just wait to change the route numbers till the same time they change the route? No wonder people get confused and look for alternative modes of transport.
(29 Dec 2014, 6:27 pm)Dan wrote [ -> ]If you lived on the routes of services 27 and 56, would you prefer the service to remain as it is at present? Not knowing if you can rely on it or not, as sometimes the buses get delayed and bunch up in twos? The current service is completely unpredictable, and whilst I haven't been affected a great deal, those who use the services more frequently may be delayed more frequently. This issue is not unique to services 27 and 56, either. It happens to Stagecoach's streamlined 10-minute frequency services too, but you don't find them doing anything about it, as apparently they're happy with their profit levels ya'da ya'da...
For your information, service 56 currently takes 1hr 10m from Sunderland - Newcastle. There is currently three minutes layover in Newcastle, and five in Sunderland. The new timetable gives 1hr 15m from Sunderland - Newcastle. There will be five minutes layover in Newcastle, and a further twelve in Sunderland. I needn't really say any more...
I live on 27 route and I would prefer GNE to increase to 15 mins, allowing extra time for people to get next one. Also it may stop buses running in twos, giving people extra time to wait & for drivers to catchup on the timetable. Instead of waiting long time.
One thing that be nice is for GNE to run 27X allowing people to buy Crusader ticket (to use on 27X) which would also help.
Thanks Dan, for update on timetables.
I think someone ought to contact GNE about these errors and things not making sense. We can't have the general public getting confused....we all know what happens then..!
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(29 Dec 2014, 8:12 pm)MarcTheA4 wrote [ -> ]I think someone ought to contact GNE about these errors and things not making sense. We can't have the general public getting confused....we all know what happens then..!
To be honest, I think the majority of changes are really positive. I just wish they wouldn't beat around the bush when informing customers. If you've changed something, just tell them, don't tell them that they can be closer to the shops or whatever. It wouldn't go a miss to actually give your customer services staff a briefing too. In addition to that, I'm not a fan of a route massively changing (i.e. 35 & 36), yet retaining the same service numbers.
Although I'm sure everyone is aware, the 82/83 changes are so difficult to read. They appear to be doing some sort of circular route?
82A arrives in Birtley, leaves as an 82?!
Southbound it seems that 82 operates Heworth-Rickleton, 82A Concord-Birtley
But on return
82 Birtley-Heworth, 82A Rickleton-Concord.
I don't see why the changes to numbering on return journeys?
(29 Dec 2014, 8:22 pm)aureolin wrote [ -> ]To be honest, I think the majority of changes are really positive. I just wish they wouldn't beat around the bush when informing customers. If you've changed something, just tell them, don't tell them that they can be closer to the shops or whatever. It wouldn't go a miss to actually give your customer services staff a briefing too. In addition to that, I'm not a fan of a route massively changing (i.e. 35 & 36), yet retaining the same service numbers.
My beef with the 36 route number is that there is the X36 from Sunderland too which runs to a completely different route which could be confusing to people. I think they went with the 36 as its service number because it is the closest number to 35 but couldn't number as service 34 as there is already a service 34/34A in Chester and this would cause confusion.
Service 83 is withdrawn and partially replaced in the areas where there are the most customers, with the interworking cycle being as follows:
82: Heworth - Donwell - Concord - Barmston (via Spout Lane and Barmston Village Centre) - Biddick - Galleries - Ayton - Rickleton
82A: Rickleton - Harraton - Ayton - Galleries - Biddick - Barmston (via Hertburn Industrial Estate and Barmston Waskerley Road) - Concord
82A: Concord - Barmston (via Hertburn Industrial Estate and Barmston Waskerley Road) - Biddick - Galleries - Ayton - Birtley
82: Birtley - Ayton - Galleries - Biddick - Barmston (via Spout Lane and Barmston Village Centre) - Concord - Donwell - Heworth
This is similar to the current interworking pattern: when an 82 arrives into Birtley, it departs as an 83, following the appropriate route variant in Portobello, Rickleton and Harraton.
Instead of direct via the Felling Bypass, service 82 will now operate via Meresyde and Grange Crescent in Leam Lane, following passenger requests, creating new direct links from this area. Currently there is a 15-minute combined frequency from Concord to Heworth, but this is reduced to a 30-minute frequency. Customers can instead use service 4 which operates every 10 minutes during Monday - Saturday daytimes.
In Birtley, the service will be extended to the new housing estate at Northside, serving Highridge, Blackfell Way and Mount Pleasant Road.