North East Buses

(25 Nov 2014, 2:04 pm)Scott wrote [ -> ]Considering that GNE have excellent customer service staff, and many ways to contact them, this is what I would do. In the inerest's of fairness I would give the company the chance to respond before going public.

People do give the company the chance to respond before going public. Some receive correspondence directly referencing their concerns while others receive a blanket reply. Reportedly, some receive no response at all. For my problem, which I deem to be trivial, I don't see any point in taking it up with customer services. I allow plenty of time for my journey to Gateshead and have no pressing engagements when travelling home. Buses were late and connections were missed but overall the impact was minimal. However, I do not appreciate standing around a bus station waiting close to half an hour to traverse a section of route which has six buses per hour. To be fair, I don't think GNE would be able to address my concerns as the latter part(s) of my journey takes part during peak hours. But I still have the right vent my frustration based upon my own travelling experience.

(25 Nov 2014, 2:25 pm)AdamY wrote [ -> ]People do give the company the chance to respond before going public. Some receive correspondence directly referencing their concerns while others receive a blanket reply. Reportedly, some receive no response at all. For my problem, which I deem to be trivial, I don't see any point in taking it up with customer services. I allow plenty of time for my journey to Gateshead and have no pressing engagements when travelling home. Buses were late and connections were missed but overall the impact was minimal. However, I do not appreciate standing around a bus station waiting close to half an hour to traverse a section of route which has six buses per hour. To be fair, I don't think GNE would be able to address my concerns as the latter part(s) of my journey takes part during peak hours. But I still have the right vent my frustration based upon my own travelling experience.

I've had a similar issue with Central Station services of late which seem to be wildly erratic. Now I can see how the Central Station roadworks are affecting GNE's service but Stagecoach to who I connect to are spot on time.

I struggle to see how Stagecoach can successfully run high frequency routes (39/40 for example) through congested areas similar to the Angel yet GNE can't. Is there something awry in scheduling?

(25 Nov 2014, 2:40 pm)gtom wrote [ -> ]I struggle to see how Stagecoach can successfully run high frequency routes (39/40 for example) through congested areas similar to the Angel yet GNE can't. Is there something awry in scheduling?

Stab in the dark, but possibly misconception due to the amount of times you use both services? I could potentially account for more delays to service 35, for example, than others on this forum, based on the fact I live on the route...

I don't use either service frequently, though my experiences of being delayed on service 21 are minimal. I have seen and photographed 21s in twos and three on occasion too though. However, I have also taken photographs on Blackett Street with three, sometimes four, 39/40 buses in a row.

(25 Nov 2014, 2:57 pm)Tom wrote [ -> ]Is 3874 meant to be at Stanley?
Still on the 17 today...

I think the transfer was cancelled and 3874 was swapped for another example due to it being VOR? That's just off the top of my head though - maybe Percy Main required the extra bus so have been left with it...

PB0002400/546 - GO NORTHERN LTD T/A GO NORTH EAST, 117 QUEEN STREET, GATESHEAD, NE8 2UA
Variation Accepted by SN: Operating between Festival Park and Cardinal Hume Catholic School given service number 879 effective from 01-Dec-2014. To amend Timetable.



PB0003954/603 - GO NORTH EAST LIMITED, 117 QUEEN STREET, GATESHEAD, NE8 2UA
Variation Accepted by SN: Operating between WARDLEY, ELLEN WILKINSON ESTATE and TEAM VALLEY given service number 92 effective from 01-Dec-2014. To amend Timetable.

(25 Nov 2014, 10:04 am)DavidP wrote [ -> ]and I thought it was just me who was that cynical about these sort of "consultations".

If the changes are to be introduced in January 2015 as suggested on other posts then surely the draft timetables, duty schedules and the various documents that need to be submitted to VOSA must already have been worked on?

Duty Schedules are not sent to VOSA, just the timetable and a map of the route.

I really wasn't going to add anything further, but having read over the thread a few times, there are a few points from the last 24 hours that I'd like to add to.

(25 Nov 2014, 12:00 pm)marxistafozzski wrote [ -> ]I can accept that Dan and GNE cant keep everyone happy all the time...

Instead of hanging around bus stations, they could get out into the communities, hold public forums with the public invited along for tea and biscuits, talk with local parish councils, shit like that if it is possible, in bus station yesterday didnt seem to do much, people have somewhere to go so may not have a great deal of time to hang around and talk...

I will reserve judgment from now till I see the feedback from the consultation...

Bus companies are damned if they do, damned if they dont...

For me, I dont think I have been too critical about GNE in the past, if I believe they do something right I will say so, on the flip side, If I aint happy, again I will say so

Having seen what Kuyoyo posted for the Stockton forum, I do think it's a crying shame that we don't have one for Tyne and Wear. A proper and impartial forum, which can be used to share views, discuss concerns, and would allow operators to consult. Maybe it's waiting for someone to try and set something up, but of course it would only work with stakeholder buy in.

(25 Nov 2014, 12:06 pm)cbma06 wrote [ -> ]The problem with the GNE consultation yesterday and the poor turn out, the fact is that there were only 1 to 3 GNE reps there with a plain brown table which looked like a table from the canteen or something with some plain sheets of paper and about 10 pens, there was nothing jumping out towards passengers saying that this is a GNE consulation for proposed bus changes, there was no back drop with the GNE logo, nothing to entice children over with their parents ( like free branded pens, balloons   etc... what stagecoach/nexus gives out) or have any kind of proposed routes on a map on a background, while I was at the Interchange yesterday for an hour only a tiny handful of passengers did go over to talk to them. it was badly organised. a lot of passengers coming round from the Grangetown bus stops were just walking past as their wouldn't know. The passengers coming off the 20 wouldn't know because most of them would be heading straight down towards the town itself, the display should of been between service 20 stand and X35 stand. GNE most have some kind of background with their logo on it somewhere in one of their depots or even at riverside offices.

The last time sunderland had a consulation with service 20 included, their proposed that service 20 was going to South Shields, and when the changes happened service 20 wasn't touched.

With the first time this has been done, I'd suggest that it was always going to be a lessons learnt exercise to a degree. I do take your point though, and I know when we've had similar, we've always had the 'stall' designed from a marketing perspective. We've even had people there solely to catch people's attention. I'm surprised this didn't happen, given the achievements of marketing a lot of the bus launches. Green Angels, The Key, Drifter and even the street MC with the Cobalt Clippers spring to mind! 

Like I'd mentioned yesterday though, I'm sure they'll get back to the drawing board, and we'll see something a lot more presentable next time. 

(25 Nov 2014, 12:17 pm)Andreos1 wrote [ -> ]If a representative from the company feels as though the comments about the company are wrong or factually incorrect - then surely they can report them?
If the representative from the company feels the comments about the company do have weight, do have merit or there is something behind the posts - then surely they can act on them?
If the representative is bored and no longer wishes to comment - then no matter how much back patting or ego massaging they get, then they will leave. One commented on how much he loved to troll a certain member on here.

One insider (BFK?) was pilloried when he admitted that the Renown with the dodgy reverse select was allocated to the 2a/c - when umpteen posters prior had identified the other routes it could have operated on, without the need to select reverse.
Whilst I have no idea whether it was related, he seemed to disappear/vanish soon after this.
Should people not comment or pass judgement incase an insider decides to no longer post?

Whilst appreciative of insider information, I don't think the board should withhold genuine and fair comment - 'just in-case'.
Remember, it works both ways and one or two insiders have dished out quite a bit towards members on here - some of it unwarranted, untrue and uncalled for.

Yes - there's a reporting mechanism for anyone to report questionable content. 

To touch upon something Fozz has said earlier, I do think every company (that provides a service - not just bus operators) is damned if they do, and damned if they don't. It's pretty much an impossible task to keep everyone happy, and you're always going to have a variety of opinions. I could go into work and bitch on about my energy supplier, about the council wanting 20 quid to take my garden waste away, or anything else. I would bet there'd be that same variety of opinions there. I had wrote earlier that I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing, and I stand by that. Opinion in debate is great, but I think great debate is sometimes overshadowed by either sweeping statements, or what turns into bickering. 

Dan had pointed out earlier in the thread that the points contained within a post (that someone has gone to the effort to write up), can be ignored outright. I do feel there is a lot of truth in that. I've been guilty of it myself, and I think that most of us can say that we've done the same. To touch upon something you had said in opening your post though, I would hope that members would not post something that they know is wrong or factually incorrect. 


There are many members of the forum that are employees of the big three operators. It's understandable if their views sway towards the business aspect of the operation, and ultimately the longevity of employment. At the same time, it's worth us remembering that the majority will be restricted by Social Media policies, by fact of how much they can say in the public domain, without it breaching commercial confidence. These members are coming to the forum in their own time, and providing us with information that we otherwise wouldn't have.

At the same time, there are also many members of the forum that are not employees of the big three operators, and will have a massive variety of views, and will come from all different backgrounds on the political spectrum - we're all politically aligned, whether we like it or not! There are those who are fanatic about the operation of a bus operator, and are massively interested in how the business works and grows. There are those who are old enough to remember the PTE days, and have a like for like comparison against how things are today, and finally there are those who like buses, but are constantly speaking from a customer perspective.

With all this in mind, I'd hope people can appreciate what a massive task it is to try and keep everyone happy, and to strike a balance. Despite having admins and moderators on the forum, it's extremely rare that those privileges are used, and I can't think of a single time that they've been used in order to revoke someone's right to an opinion. There have been times questionable content has been posted, but we've resolved it by dropping the poster a quick message. The community rules have always been simply put, and heavily rely on self moderation.

Liam and Dan have put a lot of personal time and effort into NEB themselves, and I honestly feel that the site provides something that isn't available anywhere else. We provide a regular news piece that is sharp turning into a news archive, we provide fleet lists that even include vehicle history. It's all good and well, until it gets to a point where nobody wants to talk to us, and there's always going to be a danger of that happening. Hence it being important to retain a balance. 

Just looking back over the Consultation, in particularly the Silver Arrows Extension to Silksworth and the Return of Service 33, why didnt GNE continue the extension of the Silver Arrows to Doxford Park from Silksworth as looks to me like the Service will be Duplicated between Sunderland and Silksworth by these Changes.

Furthermore in regards to the Prince Bishops/Laser Networks, I can the Proposed 20 (Durham - Sunderland - South Shields) receiving Brand New Vehicles, likely to be Double Deckers I would say, this would allow 5298 to 5303 to move to Riverside for the 57, and 5304 to 5309 to be used on the Silver Arrows Extension, I would therefore hazard a guess that the Proposed 35/36 would then be Solar Operated as the Laser Solars have just been Repainted, resulting in some of the Current Prince Bishops Allocation (4969/5211-17) being used to make up the PVR alongside 4945/46/4968/4970-72, with the rest (4989-4992) going into Corporate Livery.

@ aureolin
That's fine, but as I said, it needs to work both ways.
If the forum is going down the line where comment is to be restrained in the hope 'insiders' continue to share information in their own time, then maybe certain insiders will start to hold back on one or two of the things they come out with or the attitude they can show.
When insiders from independents threw accusations around - they were banned.
When less influential members from the SNE workforce threw comments around, they were banned.
Did any members of the GNE workforce get banned after throwing around comments, admitting to trolling certain members and potentially putting their social media policy at risk of being breached?
When I have had things said to me or I have been accused of being or doing x, y or z - apparently it being done at the same time I was bombing up the A1 from Lincolnshire, to get to the RVI to see my son, who was lying in intensive care, were those people banned? Did I windge, moan, kick up a fuss, use report buttons or stop posting?

I admit, there has been bickering and I hold my hands up to admit falling foul of it.
9 times out of 10, it has been an employee bickering with me. Strange that.

You are right, we do have our own interests and a lot of it is aligned with political or personal interests.
We all have our own writing styles, with some being more active, more popular or displaying a certain attitude.

Some of the insiders are open and honest, admitting who they work for or it being pretty obvious who they work for.
There is maybe one or two, less obvious posters. However, there are some of us, who know the devil behind the detail.

I hope I comment on behalf of everyone, when I say we all appreciate the effort that goes on behind the scenes and the information which is shared by insiders - but to repeat, it needs to work both ways and I do believe the forum will become a poorer place, if we are to hold back from fair comment, debate and opinion, so that insiders are kept sweet and that balance is kept.
Who mentioned North Korea?

Sorry, I should make it clear that my posting was merely a personal view, and nothing more than that.

http://www.simplygo.com/news/bishop-auck...ember-2014 - 18 timetable from the 1st December due to the works


http://www.simplygo.com/download/publication/66516.06

Confirmation of proposed changes are as follows:

2 2A 2C           ‘Silver Arrow’ Sunderland – Washington
This service will be extended to and from Vicarage Farm Estate in Silksworth via Hollycarrside, replacing service 42 and providing new cross-city connections, including providing the hospital connection to Silksworth. Service 2C will be renumbered 2.

20/20A              ‘Prince Bishops’ Durham – Sunderland
We are proposing to extend this service to South Shields, in place of our current ‘Laser’ service 35/35A, improving cross-town connections. 

29/29A/35/35A/35B/35C and new 36
These services will be revised to provide a new pattern of services and cross-city links. Service 35 will operate from Boldon ASDA via Castletown to Sunderland, replacing the current service 29, continuing from Sunderland via Durham Road and the hospital to Houghton-le-Spring and Low Moorsley on the existing 35 route. New service 36 will operate from Town End Farm and Hylton Castle to the city and then via Durham Road and the hospital to Houghton-le-Spring and on to Chester-le-Street, replacing service 71 and providing new direct links between Fence Houses and Sunderland. These services will provide a bus every 15 minutes between Town End Farm, Castletown, the city centre, the hospital and the Herringtons to Houghton-le-Spring.
Evening and Sunday services will operate as service 35A, starting at Heworth and running via Castletown, replacing the present service 29A. 35A will then serve the hospital and Silksworth, with one bus an hour running to Low Moorsley and the other to Houghton-le-Spring, with through fares and guaranteed connections to new short X35 services for South Hetton.

38 38C 238     Sunderland – Ryhope – Seaham – Houghton-le-Spring
One journey each hour on service 38 is extended to Houghton-le-Spring, maintaining direct connections between Silksworth and Houghton-le-Spring and creating a direct bus from Grasswell to Sunderland, as requested by our passengers. The main section of service 38 between Sunderland and Hollycarrside is unchanged.

42                    ‘SimpliCity’ Silksworth – Sunderland
This service will be replaced by revised service 2 and 2A, providing better cross-city links through Sunderland and on to Washington.

56                    ‘FAB 56’ Sunderland – Concord – Newcastle
To improve the reliability of this service, we are proposing to run buses every 12 minutes rather than every 10 minutes. 

99 99A
Revised to operate between Seaburn and Castletown only. Links to the hospital from Town End Farm and Castletown will be provided by new services 35 and 36.

X36                  ‘Fast Cats’ Sunderland - Newcastle
This service will be revised to operate half hourly between Sunderland and Downhill, with one bus an hour continuing to Gateshead and Newcastle Market Street. Passengers for Enterprise Park will be able to use service 8.

(26 Nov 2014, 11:41 am)Dan wrote [ -> ]Confirmation of proposed changes are as follows:

2 2A 2C           ‘Silver Arrow’ Sunderland – Washington
This service will be extended to and from Vicarage Farm Estate in Silksworth via Hollycarrside, replacing service 42 and providing new cross-city connections, including providing the hospital connection to Silksworth. Service 2C will be renumbered 2.

20/20A              ‘Prince Bishops’ Durham – Sunderland
We are proposing to extend this service to South Shields, in place of our current ‘Laser’ service 35/35A, improving cross-town connections. 

29/29A/35/35A/35B/35C and new 36
These services will be revised to provide a new pattern of services and cross-city links. Service 35 will operate from Boldon ASDA via Castletown to Sunderland, replacing the current service 29, continuing from Sunderland via Durham Road and the hospital to Houghton-le-Spring and Low Moorsley on the existing 35 route. New service 36 will operate from Town End Farm and Hylton Castle to the city and then via Durham Road and the hospital to Houghton-le-Spring and on to Chester-le-Street, replacing service 71 and providing new direct links between Fence Houses and Sunderland. These services will provide a bus every 15 minutes between Town End Farm, Castletown, the city centre, the hospital and the Herringtons to Houghton-le-Spring.
Evening and Sunday services will operate as service 35A, starting at Heworth and running via Castletown, replacing the present service 29A. 35A will then serve the hospital and Silksworth, with one bus an hour running to Low Moorsley and the other to Houghton-le-Spring, with through fares and guaranteed connections to new short X35 services for South Hetton.

38 38C 238     Sunderland – Ryhope – Seaham – Houghton-le-Spring
One journey each hour on service 38 is extended to Houghton-le-Spring, maintaining direct connections between Silksworth and Houghton-le-Spring and creating a direct bus from Grasswell to Sunderland, as requested by our passengers. The main section of service 38 between Sunderland and Hollycarrside is unchanged.

42                    ‘SimpliCity’ Silksworth – Sunderland
This service will be replaced by revised service 2 and 2A, providing better cross-city links through Sunderland and on to Washington.

56                    ‘FAB 56’ Sunderland – Concord – Newcastle
To improve the reliability of this service, we are proposing to run buses every 12 minutes rather than every 10 minutes. 

99 99A
Revised to operate between Seaburn and Castletown only. Links to the hospital from Town End Farm and Castletown will be provided by new services 35 and 36.

X36                  ‘Fast Cats’ Sunderland - Newcastle
This service will be revised to operate half hourly between Sunderland and Downhill, with one bus an hour continuing to Gateshead and Newcastle Market Street. Passengers for Enterprise Park will be able to use service 8.

Sorry but don't agree with the 56 change, means straight away, at least 2 branded buses will be dropped, whats the point in buying them? 

Edit: it does however mean the 2 spare buses bought for the 56, can replace other decker's at Deptford. 

I suppose one of the Gemini 2s could be used as a spare on the 309/310, however unlikely? Would make a certain someone very happy!

(26 Nov 2014, 11:44 am)Michael wrote [ -> ]Sorry but don't agree with the 56 change. 

Reducing frequency, but keeping same pvr.  This means slightly more running time and recovery time at each end, resulting in less mileage lost, hence increased reliability.

The same was done to service 27.  Reduced from 10 mins to 11 mins, meaning each trip was given an extra 10 mins.  Passengers barely notice waiting an extra min, but do notice that most trips now are able to operate full route, especially in Newcastle.

(26 Nov 2014, 11:55 am)park5354 wrote [ -> ]Reducing frequency, but keeping same pvr.  This means slightly more running time and recovery time at each end, resulting in less mileage lost, hence increased reliability.

The same was done to service 27.  Reduced from 10 mins to 11 mins, meaning each trip was given an extra 10 mins.  Passengers barely notice waiting an extra min, but do notice that most trips now are able to operate full route, especially in Newcastle.

Maybe, including the service now uses double decker's so it may work on capacity but still, new buses just being bought for it... 

2 spare branded and then the 2 "Go North East" ones... means Deptford could loose at least 2/3 Plaxton President's or 2/3 Vykings 

Overall, I quite like the proposed changes in Sunderland.

If the 56 regularly runs in twos or threes, as is often reported, it makes perfect sense to drop the frequency to improve reliability and consistency.

Whenever I've observed the X36 around Newcastle and Gateshead it's usually carrying very few passengers so a reduction in frequency was probably forthcoming at some point.

Although I don't live in Sunderland, I suspect that the cross-city links will be welcomed by passengers. Stagecoach seem to rather well so there's no reason why GNE can't achieve some level of success by doing the same thing.

The amalgamation of service 71 into proposed service 36 is interesting as it almost recreates the original route of the 71 with an extension into Town End Farm. Residents of Fencehouses will be pleased with their reinstated link to Sunderland.

(26 Nov 2014, 12:24 pm)AdamY wrote [ -> ]Overall, I quite like the proposed changes in Sunderland.

If the 56 regularly runs in twos or threes, as is often reported, it makes perfect sense to drop the frequency to improve reliability and consistency.

Whenever I've observed the X36 around Newcastle and Gateshead it's usually carrying very few passengers so a reduction in frequency was probably forthcoming at some point.

Although I don't live in Sunderland, I suspect that the cross-city links will be welcomed by passengers. Stagecoach seem to rather well so there's no reason why GNE can't achieve some level of success by doing the same thing.

The amalgamation of service 71 into proposed service 36 is interesting as it almost recreates the original route of the 71 with an extension into Town End Farm. Residents of Fencehouses will be pleased with their reinstated link to Sunderland.

The Laser changes are defiantly my favorite out of the lot, i do hope they happen, and Castletown will get their buses every 15 minutes back instead of every 20 mins (current 29)

The 99 changes, should of kept it going to Hylton Riverside Retail Park. 

(26 Nov 2014, 12:25 pm)Michael wrote [ -> ]The Laser changes are defiantly my favorite out of the lot, i do hope they happen, and Castletown will get their buses every 15 minutes back instead of every 20 mins (current 29)

The 99 changes, should of kept it going to Hylton Riverside Retail Park. 

Had a try at the new PVR's here is what i got...they're probables wrong but... 

New PVR’s for Sunderland Changes - only for peak times.... 


Silver Arrows – 12 PVR
2 - 6
2A – 6
 
Prince Bishops – 18 PVR
20 - 9
20A – 9
 
Laser - 15 PVR
35 – 8 PVR
36 – 7 PVR
 
Go North East 38 – 3 PVR?
 
FAB Fifty Six – 13 PVR
 
Go North East 99 – 1 PVR
 
X35/ X36 – 10 PVR

What i think the allocations will be:

Silver Arrows will retain citaro's (4 moving from laser) 
Prince Bishops - New buses or 4 scania's repainted in to Prince Bishops. 
Laser - Mixture of Scania and Citaro, same as of now. 
38 - Versa due to 5 becoming free from the 42. (also 39 will finally join the Simplicity brand) - with the 38/39/61 as Simplicty, the combined PVR will be 13.. means 2 spare Versa. 
FAB 56 - Same as now
99 - MPD. 
X35/X36 - Same as now. 

I wonder what the PVR of service 33 will be Sunderland-silksworth-Doxford Internatinal continue as 39 from Doxford

(26 Nov 2014, 1:37 pm)cbma06 wrote [ -> ]I wonder what the PVR of service 33 will be Sunderland-silksworth-Doxford Internatinal continue as 39 from Doxford

I'm not sure  

Although GNE will be running a 35A on a evening and Sunday these starting at Heworth and running via Castletown, replacing the present service 29A, 35A will then serve the hospital and Silksworth, with one bus an hour running to Low Moorsley and the other to Houghton-le-Spring, with through fares and guaranteed connections to new short X35 services for South Hetton.

I wonder if the 33 will be a Monday to Saturday day time only service, probables be in service between 8am till 6pm - every 20 mins (same as the current 29/35A)